Your opinion on "The Friends Zone".

m.a.r.X

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Oh, and it's impossible for most men to be friends with women for no ulterior reason. Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is. They have just chosen to keep it on the downlow. Just a spoiler alert in your future dealings with men.
Hmm...I have seen lots and lots of wonderful friendships in our prayer group. I don't think its just because of sexual attraction. >> "Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is"

But, I have a problem with 'girl' 'friends' that I tend to fall in love with them with time. Dont know why :sorry:
So, I keep them at an arms length, never let them near my heart :idea:
 
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Nekoda

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If you are a male, you already know what I'm talking about. Females, if you are somehow clueless, this is what happens when a man confesses his feelings for a woman and gets denied. The man falls back into friendship but the friendship is never the same; it's destroyed. Not only will the woman never see you as partner material ever again but you are not respected as a friend either. This seems to only happen to men, I've never heard of this the other way around.

I've friends zoned women. And I know other males that have. I'm not sure why some men think it is particular to their gender. Perhaps it's because we are expected to do the asking. Then when it's rejected by "I'd really like us to be just friends" - it's obvious. But if you have a female friend - and you never try to take things further - and you know she would like to (she typically will give hints) - and you do not, and you ignore those hints - it basically amounts to the same thing as a formal rejection - or "friend zoning" her.


I'm curious to how a Christian male treats this scenario, this is actually a very common position for many introverted men. Basically, you could either end the friendship (because your true motives are that you still like them) or would a Christian accept this position even though most men are miserable in this "zone"?

Forget acceptance of the friend zone, if you want it to be more than that. If you are ok with friends only (this means you've rejected her as a partner and only wish to express good will but no emotional commitment) then if she rejects you forget it and move on. She's looking for someone else. If she still wants you for a friend she is usually using you as emotional "backup" for her fragile ego until Mr. Right comes along. At that point she won't need you and her whole world will be about him.
 
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Blank123

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My question was what you do with a woman you still are attracted to while you are in the friends zone. You can continue the friendship but it isn't a fun place as you still like the person (and you have an ulterior motive now, you aren't really there because you love being friends). You also could leave the friendship but if I broke every friendship I have with women who have rejected me, I'd probably have no female friends whatsoever.

If you're harbouring feelings for someone who has told you in no uncertain terms that they are not attracted to you and you can't move on, then yeah... maybe its better to walk away from the friendship.

I'd be curious what it is that makes you continue to hope for something more with them though. Are you hoping they're playing hard to get or will change their mind if you spend more time with them? Or are they not being clear enough with you? Your post makes me think that you only see friendship with the opposite sex as a means to an end, which might play into why you can't move on after rejection too. If you cannot allow yourself to see a woman as just a friend or a sister, then you will always view her as a potential partner, even after the rejection.

I've had a couple of guy friends in the past that I did crush on for awhile and when they told me they only saw me as a sister/friend, I moved on and got over it. To be fair, it did take some time because hearts don't shut off like a light switch. But being told directly they're not interested and it will never happen, thats a pretty big turnoff. And you can't get any better resolution than that for moving on.

One of them I did wind up losing his friendship. Mostly because he seems to have had your view. He didn't seem to believe I would get over him (which, in hindsight, probably speaks rather largely of his ego). So he stopped talking to me.

The other guy... he's one of my best friends now. And I am incredibly thankful that neither of us had that attitude and we refused to allow things to become awkward between us, because otherwise I wouldn't have this wonderful person in my life now. I'll talk about him some more in a minute.

but hanging around when you, admittedly, don't want their friendship? That I do not understand at all. Unless, as you seem to imply, you were only ever in that friendship to find a date. In which case.... you're doing it all wrong. And I will say this; if this is your dating game plan that there is every chance that you've been rejected by those women simply for playing games. Game-playing is a turnoff. Hence why I said in my original post, don't make friends with women just to date them. Make friends because you want their friendship. If you're actual friends first and a relationship naturally develops out of that, then awesome. You've got a strong foundation for a future with her. If you pretend to be her friend with a goal in mind of dating her, you're starting out on a foundation of dishonesty and game-playing, which is shaky at best. I prefer to date guys I've known awhile first, but I would much rather he be upfront with me from the beginning that he`s interested and ask me out at the start than to play games with me to lure me in.

That's the question. Having nothing to do with women I've asked out in the past seems a bit overreactive to me and I wanted your opinion on it. I'm not interested in misconceptions of the friend zone, thinking guys are "bitter" because we get rejected, don't flatter yourselves women, you aren't that addictive.
experience tells me otherwise. I've rarely met a man yet who believed in the friendzone and wasn't bitter at at least one woman, if not all women, for being placed in the zone of his own imagination.

But the same goes for women who tend to believe it about men.

There are exceptions, naturally. But this seems to be the rule. Which is logical. The whole premise behind The Friendzone is that every woman must be attracted to every man in some way, and if she chooses not to date him and put him in the Friendzone instead, she's just being disrepsctful to him by not choosing to be with someone as amazing as him. And she should know better. (slightly tongue in cheek there).

Oh, and it's impossible for most men to be friends with women for no ulterior reason. Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is. They have just chosen to keep it on the downlow. Just a spoiler alert in your future dealings with men.
OK. I'm sorry. This just made me laugh.

One of my best friends is a guy. He's also one of the guys I was referring to earlier that I liked at one point, but the feelings weren't returned. And when I learned that, my own feelings for him dissolved.

Now we're pretty close. We love eachother. We're there for eachother. But we're very much brother and sister to eachother. We are a terrible match romantically, and neither one of us wants to date the other. In fact, I've turned into something of a dating coach for him for the woman that he really likes. He's even given me interrogation rights for the woman he's interested in so I can approve :)ebil: ) And he thinks of himself as something of a bodyguard to me for weeding through the undesirables.

No sexual tension or romantic interest of any size on either of our parts =)
 
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MacFall

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Oh, and it's impossible for most men to be friends with women for no ulterior reason. Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is. They have just chosen to keep it on the downlow. Just a spoiler alert in your future dealings with men.

You speak only for yourself, brother.
 
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TwistTim

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My question was what you do with a woman you still are attracted to while you are in the friends zone. You can continue the friendship but it isn't a fun place as you still like the person (and you have an ulterior motive now, you aren't really there because you love being friends). You also could leave the friendship but if I broke every friendship I have with women who have rejected me, I'd probably have no female friends whatsoever.

That's the question. Having nothing to do with women I've asked out in the past seems a bit overreactive to me and I wanted your opinion on it. I'm not interested in misconceptions of the friend zone, thinking guys are "bitter" because we get rejected, don't flatter yourselves women, you aren't that addictive.

I think I answered that part pretty well, if you value your friendship no matter how painful it is to carry it on while you go though the emotional process of healing, you carry it on. If you were only using the friendship to get the point of asking out, then it is easy to move away from her and that would tell her how you really felt.

My Parents said:
Rule No. 1: Life is not fair.
It is full of pain and heartache and disappointments and sometimes things that should not work for you do. It can be unfair in both regards. But you still have to get out there and live it and deal with it as it comes.

Oh, and it's impossible for most men to be friends with women for no ulterior reason. Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is. They have just chosen to keep it on the downlow. Just a spoiler alert in your future dealings with men.
I have had/do still have several female friends, one of which I admit I do have an attraction to that I know will go nowhere. Of the rest, I have had only a handful was attracted to in the past. The Greater majority were/are just friends and will never be attractive to me as dating material. I've always had an easier time making friends with the ladies.

When the majority of my male co-workers either talk about sports or comics or even shoes(yes I once heard a four 1/2 conversation between two male co-workers on their shoes and Nike vs New Balance) rather than discussing ideas.. I've no interest in hanging out with them, even with the ones I do game with, I play the game with them, I spend some time working on my game strategies during the intervening times but that is where I draw the line. Life is more than games or sports or shoes. It is certainly more than politics also.

Give me more men willing to discuss ideas though. That is why I -the libertarian- discuss politics with the socialist, he at least travels into the world of ideas and of the world of things. It is also why I am glad to work away from everyone else 3 nights a week, I can be near some men in another department who at times do discuss ideas.

More of the women I know do discuss ideas, or at least are willing to do so.

It was that great philosopher unknown who said:

unknown said:
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Most of my male co-workers are Averagely Small.
Most of my female co-workers are Greatly Average.
A few of each are small and average with a few moments of Greatness.

I Tend to be a Average Great, therefore I go with the group I feel I mentally belong with. If I am just attracted to them all, then I am a strange sick man, because each one is so different from the rest.
 
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Gwendolyn

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Here is my problem with this concept (I wrote about it in another thread about "nice guys"):

The frustration men have about the "friend zone" reeks of entitlement. It assumes that women owe men something simply because men are kind to them. No woman owes a man anything just because he has feelings for her. You do not input kindness coins like a woman is a vending machine, and automatically receive sex/a relationship for your efforts.

Either a person is attracted to you, or they are not. If they are NOT, there is NOTHING you can do about that. It isn't cruel, it isn't mean, and it definitely isn't malicious. If you aren't attracted to someone, you aren't attracted to them - the end. It isn't an act of injustice to simply not feel any attraction.

Deal with it! Everyone faces rejection in their lives. The whole "friend zone" concept is just a bunch of whining by people who don't understand that attraction is not universal. Not everyone will be attracted to every single person, ever. Women do not look around at all possible men and think every single one of them is potential date material. We feel attraction sometimes, and we don't feel attraction sometimes. It really is random.

And if you're pursuing the kind of woman who will abuse your feelings for her in order to get you to do things for her or give her things, you really need to re-think your dating plan. That's just... unfortunate.
 
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Guy Incognito

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If you are a male, you already know what I'm talking about. Females, if you are somehow clueless, this is what happens when a man confesses his feelings for a woman and gets denied. The man falls back into friendship but the friendship is never the same; it's destroyed. Not only will the woman never see you as partner material ever again but you are not respected as a friend either. This seems to only happen to men, I've never heard of this the other way around.

This isn't an argument on the friend zone, I'm not very interested in arguing with feminists about the friends zone is somehow disgusting to them.

I'm curious to how a Christian male treats this scenario, this is actually a very common position for many introverted men. Basically, you could either end the friendship (because your true motives are that you still like them) or would a Christian accept this position even though most men are miserable in this "zone"?

Picard_Facepalm_lo.jpg


My question was what you do with a woman you still are attracted to while you are in the friends zone. You can continue the friendship but it isn't a fun place as you still like the person (and you have an ulterior motive now, you aren't really there because you love being friends). You also could leave the friendship but if I broke every friendship I have with women who have rejected me, I'd probably have no female friends whatsoever.

That's the question. Having nothing to do with women I've asked out in the past seems a bit overreactive to me and I wanted your opinion on it. I'm not interested in misconceptions of the friend zone, thinking guys are "bitter" because we get rejected, don't flatter yourselves women, you aren't that addictive.

Oh, and it's impossible for most men to be friends with women for no ulterior reason. Most of your male friends are friends with you because you are attractive to them in some way. Yes, you can have a deep friendship but we are there because we feel some sort of sexual tension for you, however small it is. They have just chosen to keep it on the downlow. Just a spoiler alert in your future dealings with men.

310_1011767108196_4734_n.jpg


Gwendolyn & Tigress > this thread.
 
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Gwendolyn

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The simple answer is... if it is too painful for you to have an actual friendship with a woman you had romantic feelings for, then don't do it.

Don't hang around thinking that women might change their mind based on any number of things ("If I start working out... if I dress better... if I drive her around or buy her presents..."). They won't. If they aren't attracted to you, they aren't attracted to you - that's it. Nothing you can do about it. Don't torture yourself thinking they'll come around or something.

I must say I am very disappointed to hear that some of you feel that men only befriend women because they want to have sex with them. That really doesn't leave any room for Christian charity and means men act only with ulterior motives, which isn't Christian at all. It's pretty dismaying for me to hear that, honestly.
 
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Sapphyre

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My question was what you do with a woman you still are attracted to while you are in the friends zone. You can continue the friendship but it isn't a fun place as you still like the person (and you have an ulterior motive now, you aren't really there because you love being friends).

You're right. It's not always the most fun thing to be in a friendship with someone you are attracted to who doesn't feel the same. But I'm a little peeved by this statement and your later implication that men are only friends with women they are attracted to. You're correct in that any human relationship exists because both parties desire to get something out of the relationship, and if the desire is simply to have someone to flirt with, or use in some way, that's pretty terrible. But most of these relationships are innocent, just having the desire to share similar activities or discussing things with like-minded individuals. You know, real friendship.

I've had a couple of guy friends in the past that I did crush on for awhile and when they told me they only saw me as a sister/friend, I moved on and got over it. To be fair, it did take some time because hearts don't shut off like a light switch. But being told directly they're not interested and it will never happen, thats a pretty big turnoff. And you can't get any better resolution than that for moving on.
Either a person is attracted to you, or they are not. If they are NOT, there is NOTHING you can do about that. It isn't cruel, it isn't mean, and it definitely isn't malicious. If you aren't attracted to someone, you aren't attracted to them - the end. It isn't an act of injustice to simply not feel any attraction.

Tigress is right, it's not always easy. You definitely can't turn off your feelings like a light switch, and if it takes a long time and their definite disinterest isn't enough to kill your attraction, then you have a hard decision to make, because what Gwen said is 100% true and worth remembering. Sure, you can end the friendship if it truly means nothing else to you. But if you're truly attracted to the person... doesn't that mean you enjoy their presence in your life in some way? You do have another option. It's not dishonest and it's not shameful - just let it go as much as you can, deal with the occasional hurt feelings and pride, and build a genuine friendship with this person you enjoy.

Sometimes it sucks to be in these situations, but it's definitely not all that complicated. Attraction is a pretty black and white thing... there's not a whole lot of gray to try and figure out.
 
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CircuitousPath

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It all boils down to approach. Will you be direct in expressing your intentions toward a potential love interest, or will you make the mistake that many men make in our feminized culture: sell yourself as a "buddy" or non-sexual companion hoping that one day she will magically see your worth as a boyfriend or spouse. The friend zone can be a hellish experience, yes, but it is a hell of one's own making. You can't approach women under the guise of friendship and expect them to somehow shift their perception of you toward a more romantic bent later in the relationship. Be bold. Let her know how you feel from the initial meeting, and let the cards fall where they may.
 
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NoodlesNoodlesNoodles

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It all boils down to approach. Will you be direct in expressing your intentions toward a potential love interest, or You can't approach women under the guise of friendship and expect them to somehow shift their perception of you toward a more romantic bent later in the relationship. Be bold. Let her know how you feel from the initial meeting, and let the cards fall where they may.
Yes...trying a "friends first," approach when friendship really is not the ultimate goal, can send mixed messages.

I too have found it has been best to ask out around the time of initial contact. Also, I never ask out female friends or co-workers. .
 
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Sapphyre

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It all boils down to approach. Will you be direct in expressing your intentions toward a potential love interest, or will you make the mistake that many men make in our feminized culture: sell yourself as a "buddy" or non-sexual companion hoping that one day she will magically see your worth as a boyfriend or spouse. The friend zone can be a hellish experience, yes, but it is a hell of one's own making. You can't approach women under the guise of friendship and expect them to somehow shift their perception of you toward a more romantic bent later in the relationship. Be bold. Let her know how you feel from the initial meeting, and let the cards fall where they may.

This just isn't true. Or we have different definitions of friendship. I'd feel much, much more comfortable having a friendship with a guy evolve into something more. Otherwise... how do you even know the person?
 
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redblue22

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maybe guys don't listen because they don't want to be friends first? or maybe guys want to be in control? or maybe these guys just think they know better?

I see a guy get shot down in flames whether he is rude at the bar or shares his undying love. I step up and say hey baby wanna go for a ride? sure, she says, and everything's all right.
 
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NoodlesNoodlesNoodles

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So many women say they like the idea of friends first, why don't guys listen?
Interestingly, I've never heard women say this before I came to Christian Forums. Never heard it outside of CF either. When I started hearing it here I literally thought along the lines of "Wow, the women here are freaks. And not in a good way..."

I do hang out with an odd bunch, though. ;)
 
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I don't try to worm my way into a relationship through friendship as I find that dishonorable. If I'm really courting a girl then I make it clear. The problem is sometimes you become friends with a girl and you start developing feelings that are not reciprocated, then it feels really bad, does that happen to anyone else?
 
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Sapphyre

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I guess I just can't understand feeling a level of attraction for someone, enough to want to date them, without getting to know them first. And the whole getting to know them thing = friendship to me. *shrug* If that makes me weird... so be it. It's not news to me. ;)
 
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