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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Your opinion of UFOs, ESP, poltergeists, etc?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sanoy" data-source="post: 72639101" data-attributes="member: 397693"><p>(continued)</p><p>Skill is not redundant in knowledge. Knowledge is not the ability to determine truths about the world. A child can determine truths about the world but he will be wrong about many of them. Knowledge is epistemically justified belief. This is what you lack in determinism. There is no justified reason to believe anything that comes out of your mind. </p><p></p><p>Knowledge about the true state of affairs in the world requires the skillful capability to apprehend the true state of affairs in the world. You are unable to even identify relationships truthfully under determinism. Everything you say is determined, your comments are just brain fizz. Introducing randomness to overcome your determinism is going to make anything better, random doesn't give you any more justification for your beliefs than determinism did. When AI learns something true about the world it does so because it was given a system of epistemology for which it can learn something true about the world. In this since the AI has something the deterministic mind lacks. It is more human than human. </p><p></p><p>According to your definition of knowledge, acquired knowledge does not require any justification. That is correct under determinism. Even false beliefs about the world can be considered knowledge. </p><p></p><p>So you are not confident in your off-the-cuff definition of knowledge? I'm not confident in it either.</p><p></p><p>You are not evaluating anything by any epistemic method. That is not an advantage but an incredible handicap. A programed car cannot acquire facts about the world. Knowledge of facts does not exist in determinism. The car doesn't think it's a fact that if it hits the wall it will stop. It is programed that if X then Y. It doesn't know what a wall is or even what it is. Those are abstract concrete objects. A car does not comprehend abstract objects, neither does any deterministic system. Only abstract objects can comprehend abstract objects. That AI can come close to operating correctly in regards to abstract objects in not an indication that it comprehends abstract objects. In your case you also don't know anything. Your database of knowledge is determined to be what it is and could either not be anything other than what it is (determined) or it could be a database of anything (random).</p><p></p><p>Sensors don't determine truth, they respond to an input. If a transistor gets a voltage it closes. That's it, it doesn't output truth, it doesn't record data either. Data is an abstract object which sensors do not detect. </p><p></p><p>You can't say I am wrong anymore than you can say you are right. Both are determined to believe what they believe with no justification for their beliefs. It is a self defeating world view because you can't even say you are right about your own view. </p><p></p><p>Actual free will is a requirement for rationality. As you objectively have no free will you have no rationality.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sanoy, post: 72639101, member: 397693"] (continued) Skill is not redundant in knowledge. Knowledge is not the ability to determine truths about the world. A child can determine truths about the world but he will be wrong about many of them. Knowledge is epistemically justified belief. This is what you lack in determinism. There is no justified reason to believe anything that comes out of your mind. Knowledge about the true state of affairs in the world requires the skillful capability to apprehend the true state of affairs in the world. You are unable to even identify relationships truthfully under determinism. Everything you say is determined, your comments are just brain fizz. Introducing randomness to overcome your determinism is going to make anything better, random doesn't give you any more justification for your beliefs than determinism did. When AI learns something true about the world it does so because it was given a system of epistemology for which it can learn something true about the world. In this since the AI has something the deterministic mind lacks. It is more human than human. According to your definition of knowledge, acquired knowledge does not require any justification. That is correct under determinism. Even false beliefs about the world can be considered knowledge. So you are not confident in your off-the-cuff definition of knowledge? I'm not confident in it either. You are not evaluating anything by any epistemic method. That is not an advantage but an incredible handicap. A programed car cannot acquire facts about the world. Knowledge of facts does not exist in determinism. The car doesn't think it's a fact that if it hits the wall it will stop. It is programed that if X then Y. It doesn't know what a wall is or even what it is. Those are abstract concrete objects. A car does not comprehend abstract objects, neither does any deterministic system. Only abstract objects can comprehend abstract objects. That AI can come close to operating correctly in regards to abstract objects in not an indication that it comprehends abstract objects. In your case you also don't know anything. Your database of knowledge is determined to be what it is and could either not be anything other than what it is (determined) or it could be a database of anything (random). Sensors don't determine truth, they respond to an input. If a transistor gets a voltage it closes. That's it, it doesn't output truth, it doesn't record data either. Data is an abstract object which sensors do not detect. You can't say I am wrong anymore than you can say you are right. Both are determined to believe what they believe with no justification for their beliefs. It is a self defeating world view because you can't even say you are right about your own view. Actual free will is a requirement for rationality. As you objectively have no free will you have no rationality. [/QUOTE]
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