Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Sounds good --- you and trt seem to be two of the friendlier atheists here.
The Bible is inerrant --- our interpretations are errant --- and it's our fault if we err.
Ignorance of the Law is no excuse --- as they say.
One of the biggest ways to err --- if not the biggest way --- is to interpret It the way you guys say It should be interpreted --- allegorically.
If we interpreted the Law like you guys say we should interpret the Bible, we would be getting tickets right and left --- and it would be our fault.
One of the biggest ways to err --- if not the biggest way --- is to interpret It the way you guys say It should be interpreted --- allegorically.
If we interpreted the Law like you guys say we should interpret the Bible, we would be getting tickets right and left --- and it would be our fault.
I don't understand your question.
It's not a matter of 'interpretation' --- Jesus clearly said Jerusalem will be occupied.
The Crusaders said, "We will liberate Jerusalem."
God won.
So you have God saying one thing, some people thinking He meant something else, and those people losing.
And anyone trying to march on Jerusalem today to liberate it will get a lesson in history as well.
Liberating Jerusalem from the Gentiles is a right that Jesus, Himself holds.
No, I expect not. No more than right here, or in the thread that deals in the same state issue. You have a place to show your stuff. Why be afraid if you have something? I think it is clear you don't. Why put on?
There is no evidence for a same state future, or far past. None. No need to question it. The stuff you likely mean is assumption based, and can't stand on it's own in any way.
If you could show you had more than false bravado, and bluster, we could raise the ante. You were called on to get over to the thread that deals with your question, and show you are worthy of further debate.
You make the claim it is inerrant, but I see nothing to back that up but your desire or opinion on the matter. It seems that the Bible is just too hard if it is not inerrant... correct?The Bible is inerrant --- our interpretations are errant --- and it's our fault if we err.
True, but punishment should be tempered by mitigating factors.Ignorance of the Law is no excuse --- as they say.
Wrong.One of the biggest ways to err --- if not the biggest way --- is to interpret It the way you guys say It should be interpreted --- allegorically.
The law was written or re-written over the years for modern Americans. Genesis was written for Bronze-Age goat-herders to understand. That is why it has so much allegory and symbolism. People communicated important ideas via stories. It is all about context. Parts of Genesis were passed down as unwritten stories for many generations before it was written down. Thus details were not important, only the story was important, and that could change in small ways over time. According to you, every single word should be analyzed and be historically accurate. If one of the writers were here I bet he would say your interpretatiion was ridiculous.If we interpreted the Law like you guys say we should interpret the Bible, we would be getting tickets right and left --- and it would be our fault.
The 'whole" Bible was written by different authors at different times. Again what you keep ignoring is context.The former --- the Creation Story.
And, by implication, the whole Bible.
Some parts were allegorical and others were literal.There are two major ways to interpret the Bible (four actually, but the other two are minor):
- allegorically
- literally
Not the allegorical parts, especially the oldest that were remembered as stories before they were even written down.It was meant to be interpreted literally.
So its all about what is easiest for you, then. So much for your assertion that you are a scholar of The Bible.Interpreting the Bible allegorically makes the reader the sole authority for what It says, whereas interpreting It literally makes even those hostile to the Bible admit that It says what It says.
I don't see how that helps your case.The Bible contains allegory --- but this does not mean the Bible is allegory.
Now that I think about, the law in America is usually interpreted allegorically, which would be the primary reason for the courts: to decide if it was interpreted in keeping with the Constitution or not. In the case of the Bible, I guess the Church would act as the courts and God would be the Constitution. In this way the Church would decide how to interpret the Bible so that the interpretation is as close to what God intended.
No where in the OP did I claim to have an inspired interpretation of scripture. In fact, I did not mention any interpetation of mine at all. I made two points. First, that not even the Bible claims that the Bible is inerrant. Second, Nobody's interpretation of scripture is inerrant (mine included). Do you agree or disagree with these two points?
In the end, creationists have no true divine legitimacy for their claims, even if one assumes that The Bible was divinely inspired.
And that is why creationism is not based on The Inerrant Word of God
7 literal days --- (6 actually).I think I understand. Saying "the Bible is allegory" is like comparing to Aesop's Fables, and saying "the Bible contains allegory" would be comparing stories in the Bible, such as Jesus' parables, to Aesop's Fables. Little confused on the second part.
I am just wondering, do you believe that the creation happened in a literal 7 days, or that a few of those days could by many years long?
Um --- incest is not "perfectly fine" --- in any dispensation....and incest being perfectly fine ...
God didn't legislate against incest --- He legislated against marriages no longer being legal.... because God hadn't legislated against it yet...
We had a period in our past known as "Prohibition".hmm If a tree falls in the forest before the word fall is invented did it really fall?
We had a period in our past known as "Prohibition".
Prior to it, it was legal to drink --- after it was instituted --- it was illegal to drink.
I am not suggesting that scripture is null and void... rather that it is (at best) an imperfect reflection of God's Word. I do not agree with the last sentence, however... interpretation by fallible people is never inerrant.First textual critism does point out at worst to some tampering, what it likes to call spurious. It also points to some 'lost in translation' and spelling blunders. It cannot point out the absense of inerrancy by an inspired revelation coming from God. Putting two and two together so to speak, like what happenned to Peter. "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven" (Mt 16:17)
Basically any errors do not make the scriptures null and void as being something that has not come from God as His revealed word. That despite certain obvious blunders made in translation and spelling plus spurioucity, the inerrancy happens not with what is written, but with what is being heard -> Interpretation.
I am generalizing, but this is based on my interactions with creationists and their basic arguments. In the end, for most, it comes down to: "my argument is based on the Word of God and therefore trumps science, because sciecne can be wrong but The Word of God cannot." This assumes The Bible is the inerrant Word of God and that their interpretation is also inerrant. The only truth I am trying to explain, is that none of us are inerrant, including the authors of The Bible. Therefore, none of us can claim inerrancy whether it is based on The Bible or otherwise.I do agree the questions you asked are at the crux of the issue but it tends to lump all creationists in one lump sum. I too would ask such things as, 'show me in the Bible where it says the earth is 6,000 years old?' But it's the conclusion your statement reaches and wishes to convince people as being "the truth" too, which is where thecame from.
Agreed.Where do ideas of this or that which reach conclusions come from? It could be asked what inspires a person to write their post? People should ask, why should they believe you or me for that matter? How does a person know if someone is speaking the universal truth or just something out of their own bias or limited observation?
Let us assume The Bible is divinely inspired for this thread. It is at least a claim that the writers of the Bible clearly made.However if one where to assume that the Bible was divinely inspired, what does the word explain?
I would argue that we do not know if the "right ideas" are being spoken at all.It does claim that right and wrong ideas are being made about it contents, would explaining creation be somehow immune to the above process? Certainly not. Surprisingly the above also suggests the right ideas are being spoken but not being heard, somehow the wrong ones are being claimed. Indeed where does the Bible claim the earth is 6,000 years old?
Good question.So when one assumes the Bible is divinely inspired for today's population, where one of its internally inspired writers wrote, "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you..." (2 Pe 2:1) Are people to assume that only false teachers are left presently to interpret the scriptures and creationism for them? Or have those that have been given the inspiration, the revelation of its truth, are they around to interpret it today?
Indeed how. Once again, it is very possible that no one is interpeting the inspired word in truth... how can we tell? Even if we assume someone must be interpreting scripture correctly on a given subject, how can we determine who? This is in essence, my point.That is of course if one were to assume that the inspired word of God is the truth and its inerrancy is still available to be communicated. Yes there are people communicating and interpreting the inspired word in truth. Problem is with soooooo many different claims, who can a person believe?
I see. So you have 'shown it' Excellent. I am kinda busy reading on topic posts, but please link us to where you strutted your stuff. What a scream.I have shown it before. The fact you decided to ignore it doesn't mean I did not show it.
Um --- incest is not "perfectly fine" --- in any dispensation.
Incest didn't exist until close-relation marriages were forbidden.
Incest is the crime of marrying a close relative.
No law = no crime --- no crime = no incest.
God didn't legislate against incest --- He legislated against marriages no longer being legal.
Just like weight occurs when gravity is resisted --- incest occurs when the law is resisted.
Should God legislate against incest, that means He would allow it.
Thus Cain didn't commit incest if he married his sister, but years later, his offspring, if they married their sisters, certainly did.
No, incest is not a word which means to have sexual relations with a close family member --- incest is the crime of having sexual relations with a close family member.Incest is a word which means to have sexual relations with a close family member.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?