youngh earth local flood

[yeshuasavedme]

does anyone here believe young earth and local flood?

--dave

Yep.
Nope.
Global flood, to 15 cubits above highest mountain.

Also, one land mass, until after Babel and the division of tongues and dividing of the land..

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes, I do believe that angels do not know much about what is going to happen on the heavens and the earth. They are only messengers and work force for God. They do not participate in the planning of any future/past event. In other words, they do not "manage" God's project at any level.

An exciting expectation based on faith is: We will actually participate in the management of God's kingdom. This is how we are fundamentally different from angels.

Angels have the "Scripture of Truth" written on tablets in heaven, to read and know what will befall the sons of men, from the beginning to the end. Gabriel showed Daniel what was written in the Scripture of Truth concerning Daniel's people from then to the end. What the angel showed Daniel, Daniel wrote for us, in Daniel 11 and 12; but first, the angel read those things in the Scripture of Truth, in heaven.

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted/written/inscribed in the scripture of truth: one binds with me in these things, Michael your prince.

-Michael had just come to aid Gabriel in "binding" the heavenly power -the prince of Persia- so that Prince would obey what was written in the Scripture of Truth and loose Israel, to return to her land. After that heavenly Prince was "bound" by those two sons of God, then the earthly King, Cyrus, of Persia, let Israel go.

The heavenly tablets were seen by Enoch, in heaven, and they were written for the angels to read.

1 Enoch [Chapter 81]
1 And he said unto me:
' Observe, Enoch, these heavenly tablets,
And read what is written thereon,
And mark every individual fact.'
2 And I observed the heavenly tablets, and read everything which was written (thereon) and understood everything, and read the book of all the deeds of mankind, and of all the children of flesh 3 that shall be upon the earth to the remotest generations. And forthwith I blessed the great Lord the King of glory for ever, in that He has made all the works of the world,
And I extolled the Lord because of His patience,
And blessed Him because of the children of men.

[Chapter 93]
1,2 And after that Enoch both gave and began to recount from the books. And Enoch said:
' Concerning the children of righteousness and concerning the elect of the world,
And concerning the plant of uprightness, I will speak these things,
Yea, I Enoch will declare (them) unto you, my sons:
According to that which appeared to me in the heavenly vision,
And which I have known through the word of the holy angels,
And have learnt from the heavenly tablets.'
3 And Enoch began to recount from the books and said:

[Chapter 103]
1 Now, therefore, I swear to you, the righteous, by the glory of the Great and Honoured and 2 Mighty One in dominion, and by His greatness I swear to you.
I know a mystery
And have read the heavenly tablets,
And have seen the holy books,
And have found written therein and inscribed regarding them:
3 That all goodness and joy and glory are prepared for them,
And written down for the spirits of those who have died in righteousness,
And that manifold good shall be given to you in recompense for your labours,
And that your lot is abundantly beyond the lot of the living.
4 And the spirits of you who have died in righteousness shall live and rejoice,
And their spirits shall not perish, nor their memorial from before the face of the Great One

106...And now make known to thy son Lamech that he who has been born is in truth his son, and call his name Noah; for he shall be left to you, and he and his sons shall be saved from the destruction, which shall come upon the earth on account of all the sin and all the unrighteousness, which shall be consummated on the earth in his days. And after that there shall be still more unrighteousness than that which was first consummated on the earth; for I know the mysteries of the holy ones; for He, the Lord, has showed me and informed me, and I have read (them) in the heavenly tablets.

[Chapter 108]
1 Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah and for those who will come after him, 2 and keep the law in the last days. Ye who have done good shall wait for those days till an end is made of those who work evil; and an end of the might of the transgressors. And wait ye indeed till sin has passed away, for their names shall be blotted out of the book of life and out of the holy books, and their seed shall be destroyed for ever, and their spirits shall be slain, and they shall cry and make lamentation in a place that is a chaotic wilderness, and in the fire shall they burn; for there is no earth there. And I saw there something like an invisible cloud; for by reason of its depth I could not look over, and I saw a flame of fire blazing brightly, and things like shining 5 mountains circling and sweeping to and fro. And I asked one of the holy angels who was with me and said unto him: ' What is this shining thing? for it is not a heaven but only the flame of a blazing 6 fire, and the voice of weeping and crying and lamentation and strong pain.' And he said unto me: ' This place which thou seest-here are cast the spirits of sinners and blasphemers, and of those who work wickedness, and of those who pervert everything that the Lord hath spoken through the mouth 7 of the prophets-(even) the things that shall be. For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners, and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed 8 by God; and of those who have been put to shame by wicked men: Who love God and loved

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes, yes, yes. Sorry couldn't resist and as we're getting up to the festive season I wonder if Singin' in the Rain will be shown yet again on TV?!

Anyways Noah built an Ark on the spec God gave him. It was 300x50x30 cubits in length, width and height. A cubit is as far as I can remember from the tip of a middle finger to the elbow, about 18 inches. So that is 450x75x45 feet and a bit more (forgot the extra inches!) in length, width and height. This is a huge undertaking if the Flood was a "local event". It took years to build and all the while Noah preached to the people living at that time. If it was a local event all they had to do was move out, yet this did not happen. Why not? Maybe because the fallen angels had to be put into a situation by which they could not use their force against all that Noah had done. These ones knew full well that if God decreed something, it would happen.

Yet they remained silent. They could of saved their wives or their children by sending them into the Ark. But their now demonised position made them think of only themselves. They came to earth to gratify their sexual desires and now they were willing to sacrifice their families knowing full well they could dematerialise their bodies and return to the heavenly realms and save themselves.

In addition the Bible states that it was God who closed the door to the ark. God's power is far more that that of angels. By this act alone, the fallen angels could not use their power to force their way onto the ark. If they could there would be little doubt as to their intention: kill Noah and his family.

So, if reasoned on, the Flood account had to be global, not local. God's anger against humanity is targeted against only those who refuse to listen and take action. The earth will never be flooded again yet we do face a great tribulation before Armageddon. Will that be a local or a global event?

The history of the flood from Noah's viewpoint is written by Moses [using books of the patriarchs] in the Book of Jasher. Because Moses already wrote it in the "Upright Record =Jasher, there was no reason to repeat all the info. Moses redacts the accounts in Genesis that he gives more fully in Jasher. "Behold, is it not written in the Book of Jasher!".
The flood is described by Enoch as the first consumation of sin on earth, and the second will be the great tribulation, as Enoch first prophesied.
Jasher chapters 4,5 and 6 descrbe the flood, with the details added.

http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html
Noah preached with Methusaleh for 120 years [a sign of the 120 Jubilee years of this creation from that time, before the melting of the elements of this creation and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth].

If the men had repented, God would not have sent the flood, preached Noah and Methusaleh. And the watchers were to be chained and their sons destroyed, even if the sons of men had repented, for the judgment was already decreed for the nephillim and their fathers -the fallen angels. Enoch describes that in chapters 14 and 15. The Ark was not intended to take anyone other than Noah and his sons and their wives and the animals by the pairs God sent to them, and if the men had repented, the flood would not have come.
Five years before the flood came, Lamech died and Noah and his sons began building the Ark, on earth, while the angels in heaven built a type of the Ark of the Everlasting Covenant, in heaven [states the writings of 1 Enoch]. When they finished the Ark, God sent the beasts and fowl to them to choose the seven pairs of clean and and two pairs of unclean.
All the righteous died before the flood, so that they would not see the destruction of their families and loved ones. All but the "elect" [Noah and his family] who would keep seed alive on the earth for the promised Son of Man to come through, who would ransom the earth and the lost sons of Adam ["whosoever will" can be ransomed by His atonement].

Noah's prayer in the flood is used by David, in 2 Samuel 22:5-25 [?], but the translators lacked the insight of where that is from, so it is lacking in it's translation from the Hebrew.

1. And the rain was still descending upon the earth, and it descended forty days and forty nights, and the waters prevailed greatly upon the earth; and all flesh that was upon the earth or in the waters died, whether men, animals, beasts, creeping things or birds of the air, and there only remained Noah and those that were with him in the ark.
2. And the waters prevailed and they greatly increased upon the earth, and they lifted up the ark and it was raised from the earth.
3. And the ark floated upon the face of the waters, and it was tossed upon the waters so that all the living creatures within were turned about like pottage in a cauldron.
4. And great anxiety seized all the living creatures that were in the ark, and the ark was like to be broken.
5. And all the living creatures that were in the ark were terrified, and the lions roared, and the oxen lowed, and the wolves howled, and every living creature in the ark spoke and lamented in its own language, so that their voices reached to a great distance, and Noah and his sons cried and wept in their troubles; they were greatly afraid that they had reached the gates of death.
6. And Noah prayed unto the Lord, and cried unto him on account of this, and he said, O Lord help us, for we have no strength to bear this evil that has encompassed us, for the waves of the waters have surrounded us, mischievous torrents have terrified us, the snares of death have come before us; answer us, O Lord, answer us, light up thy countenance toward us and be gracious to us, redeem us and deliver us.
7. And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Noah, and the Lord remembered him.

1. And a wind passed over the earth, and the waters were still and the ark rested.
2. And the fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.
3. And the waters decreased in those days, and the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat.

Moses even redacts Noah's account, in Jasher, which he uses -had and read, as David's Psalm reveals- but he redacts it even more in the Genesis record.

 

[Ave Maria]

I definitely don't believe in a local flood but I do believe in a young earth. The flood of Noah's time was a global flood and we have evidence of this in all the floor stories in various cultures throughout the world.