Young Earth... Changed my view

[Sabertooth]

Perhaps not. An astrophysicist might be the best person to ask as to whether such an event would leave physical traces.

The lack of a evidence of mass landslides(?) and tidal waves(?) is evidence of subordinate miracles. Just in relationship to the earth's core, a point on the equator is moving approximately 1,000 mph. To suddenly stop & start or change directions twice, without such secondary miracles, would create the above-named conditions and, probably, worse. But we only know of THAT miracle indirectly because the subjects continued about their business without any apparent interruptions.

 

[shernren]

The lack of a evidence of mass landslides(?) and tidal waves(?) is evidence of subordinate miracles. Just in relationship to the earth's core, a point on the equator is moving approximately 1,000 mph. To suddenly stop & start or change directions twice, without such secondary miracles, would create the above-named conditions and, probably, worse. But we only know of THAT miracle indirectly because the subjects continued about their business without any apparent interruptions.

Not really. You have to remember that the earth didn't necessarily come to a complete stop (hey, considering that we impose heliocentric interpretations on the verses anything else is mild by comparison). All God needed to do was to make sure that the Earth completed one particular half-revolution in 24 hours instead of 12. One can easily imagine God pre-knowing that Joshua would need a long day, gradually slowing the planet to maybe two-thirds of its rotational velocity, and then speeding it up slowly again as the sun set - or even during the night which might have been slightly longer than usual (about which Scripture is silent). There are any number of ways in which this miracle might have been "non-invasive", and I doubt that an extra 12 hours or so of solar irradiation a few thousand years ago can be detected by science today.

And that, by the by, is not something we can say about the Flood. All Joshua's long day involved was a few hours of extra light. It may not even have been the sun at all, but rather the appearance of light over a very restricted geographical area (which would be even less detectable). The miracle could have the effect it had without leaving a trace for us today. The Global Flood, on the other hand, is invasive practically by definition. How does a Flood completely cover all land to 15 feet and destroy all terrestrial life - and not leave a trace clear to science?

... Shernren has a thread, somewhere, that talks about the physical trace left behind from a factual, historical event. ...

It started here: http://www.christianforums.com/t3343614-reply-to-creationist-re-miracles-and-science.html

and spilled over to here: http://www.christianforums.com/t3876112-to-what-extent-can-scientists-affirm-miracles.html

where, AFAIK, we're still duking it out.

 

[EturnaL]

What do you do with Exodus 20:9-11? I was a gapper for a while myself. I'm back to YEC.

Going back to YEC is a good thing .

 

[Jase]

Going back to YEC is a good thing .

Only if you want to reject reality

 

[EturnaL]

Only if you want to reject reality

The evidence points to a young earth. Sorry that you have been confused by preachers of nonsense.

 

[Willtor]

The evidence points to a young earth. Sorry that you have been confused by preachers of nonsense.

LOL!

"You've been lied to!"

"No, you've been lied to!"

"No, you!"

Reason prevails.

 

[shernren]

LOL!

"You've been lied to!"

"No, you've been lied to!"

"No, you!"

Reason prevails.

Well, at least "you've been lied to!" is more polite than "you're a liar!" I say that's an improvement, let's acknowledge it and see where we can go from there.

 

[Assyrian]

Not really. You have to remember that the earth didn't necessarily come to a complete stop (hey, considering that we impose heliocentric interpretations on the verses anything else is mild by comparison). All God needed to do was to make sure that the Earth completed one particular half-revolution in 24 hours instead of 12. One can easily imagine God pre-knowing that Joshua would need a long day, gradually slowing the planet to maybe two-thirds of its rotational velocity, and then speeding it up slowly again as the sun set - or even during the night which might have been slightly longer than usual (about which Scripture is silent). There are any number of ways in which this miracle might have been "non-invasive", and I doubt that an extra 12 hours or so of solar irradiation a few thousand years ago can be detected by science today.

Inertial dampeners?

 

[shernren]

Inertial dampeners?

The tangential velocity of someone on the earth's surface (relative to the earth's core) is about 464m/s. That's quite big if you want to bring the earth's rotational motion to a complete standstill in a few seconds. But if you stretch it over say an hour, it's about 0.129 ms^-2. I accelerate more than this when I jump out of bed.

 

[Assyrian]

Doesn't that depend on whether you jump out east or west?

But it isn't the 0.129 ms[sup]-2[/sup] deceleration I would worry about but the oceans that would keep travelling at 1666 km/h. Which is why an inertial dampening field would be so useful. Mind you it is not so good for chucking sharp pointy implements at Amalekites.

But that is all just idle speculation when the bible says it was the sun that stopped.

 

[Sabertooth]

The tangential velocity of someone on the earth's surface (relative to the earth's core) is about 464m/s. That's quite big if you want to bring the earth's rotational motion to a complete standstill in a few seconds. But if you stretch it over say an hour, it's about 0.129 ms^-2. I accelerate more than this when I jump out of bed.

Not to be picky, but I don't see how you arrived at a single figure. The relative tangential velocity at the poles is zero, while at the equator it is approximately 1K mph [I don't have the metric conversion for this]. This range of velocity should make for differing amounts of acceleration/deceleration depending on one's latitude.

 

[Assyrian]

He's from Malaysia. What do you expect? You go calculate your own figures.

Mind you, its not going to make much difference to a fixed earth, just a slight change in tides as the sun stops orbiting around the planet.

 

[shernren]

Is that merely a geographical anecdote or do I sense anti-Oriental racism? XD Kidding!

I do see both your points. The oceans would indeed need some sort of inertial dampening. And tangential velocity is different at different points on the earth; then again, the equatorial velocity would have been the maximum velocity, meaning that the force needed to be applied on different parts of the globe would be even smaller.

I don't even know why I'm still interested in this question. XD

 

[Assyrian]

You are probably a bit dizzy living so close to the equator...

 

[Sabertooth]

Until recently, I also believed in "Young Earth" and all that goes with that.

Well let me start by saying that I believe the Bible literally - as written - and nothing will change my view on that. Bring me science and I'll tell you I believe God more than science - all of which we don't know and much of which is theoretical.

Some people would say that creation didn't happen as in the Biblical way but I do... I believe that God would have told the writer of Genesis (Moses) exactly how "creation" happened. After all, God was there! We weren't!

I believe in 6 days as we know them. After all, God said "there was morning and there was evening... The Xth day"

Yet I am talking about "creation" (regeneration) taking 6 days. That does not include creation of the earth!

We read in the very first verse of the Bible that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters...

Gen 1:3 And God said "Let there be light"...

What I overlooked for a long time is that God never in the beginning of the Bible account of 6000 years ago said "Let there be an earth..."

What I'm saying is that the earth was already there at the time when God started the 6 days of creation. The earth wasn't included in those six days.

Now, whether there was a pre-Adamic race with that world being destroyed by a flood is another question.

So I suppose I am more gap theorist now!

I do believe that Adam was the first man and that was around 6000 years ago. I know he sinned and because of that, we have all still sinned and need Jesus!

God bless

Since I can't find an official name for this view, I refer to it as the "Amorphous Gap Theory" or "Young Earth Cultivation," from which "Young Biological Creation" is a viable descendant.