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Some things are more reasonable than others. For example, there are those who would claim that the entire bible is just a grand scheme plotted out by the devil himself. I don't think that's a reasonable claim. I have too many arguments and experiences of the opposite.
You are also arguing based on your opinion. You're not omniscient either, you don't have the ability to understand and interpret everything flawlessly. Why do YOU believe the things YOU believe?
That misses its mark. It suggested hypocricy of 'you too' and it doesn't workuh, it was a jibe, bro.
you said "oh, look, Protestants separate!
I said, we learned it from the best.
connect the dots, bro!
(BTW, notice you are quoting 100,000 Protestant denoms... shall I put that up on the bulliten board along with the 25,000, 35,000, 30,000 50,000 and 60,000 that other people have said? It's a crock.)
No, I already mentioned the fact that the gospel accounts are conflicting.
why not?That misses its mark. It suggested hypocricy of 'you too' and it doesn't work
bully for them.Whatever you want. It's hard to know an exact number of how many churches Protestants have split into.
I saw a doco about this horrendous American family that heckle funerals of Gulf War soldiers and they're a church just unto themselves, that one family
My point is that I don't agree that the bible has a certain doctrine on tithing, for example, at least not in the new covenant. But a lot of churches have made a doctrine about it. That's fine, they're free to do that, but they shouldn't claim that it's strictly "biblical", if you know what I mean.I still don't get your point. Are you criticising the church when you don't believe in sola scriptura?
Sorry, I lost you there. What did I say I didn't?You said before you didn't.
I'm not saying nobody else than me are relying on the Spirit.No where would Luther say he's not acting without the spirit, so you're using it in a way unique to you.
I believe, as a matter of faith, that the bible is correct on the vital stuff. It's not vital to my faith, for example, whether or not both the thieves blasphemed Jesus on the cross.How can you be reliant on a Bible you say is erring?
It doesn't, to my knowledge.Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is sufficient to know the truth (with or without the Holy Spirit)?
There are a lot of useful and valuable things that benefit us. Like the bible, congregations, teachings, music and so forth. But we don't depend on any of those things. The bible is full of stories about people who had to make do without the benefits of the bible or churches and such. Jonah in the whale's belly, for example. Adam and Eve. Abraham. Jonathan in the lion's den. Etc.Sure and Adam had a realatioship with God. Did this mean Jesus' coming was pointless? No, of course not. So what then was the point in Jesus coming and establishing the church?
For the same reason they wrote down the gospels, I guess. For the same reason Paul wrote letters to the congregations around. To help them, to benefit them.That doesn't answer the question. Why would they do this?
But I have good reasons to believe it's cultural, though. Especially when I research literature on how the culture was at that time and in those countries.That's circular reasoning. You discard it because it's only 'cultural', based on you believing it's only cultural.
I'm not a sinner anymore. When I was a sinner, I was a sinner by birth. It was my nature. I sinned because that was who I was. When I was born again, it was God Himself who gave birth to me, and whatever is born of Him is perfect and does not sin. I got me a new spirit. I still live in the same flesh though, and after having sinned my whole life, that's still what I'm accustomed to. So sometimes I forget who I really am, and act like a sinner.So you don't sin anymore?
a) show me where the Bible must contain all Chrisitan teachings. You refuse to answer this, thus I reduce my response to you.My point is that I don't agree that the bible has a certain doctrine on tithing,
no, of course not! You're not like us!We're not the same as you guys
They're in your invisible church of all believers!
(Guided as they are by the Holy Spirit!)
How's that?Which destroys your belief in your own faith.
No, Jesus was not wrong to pick people to teach. Not quite sure what you're replying to here, actually. But anyway, what I said is that I'm simply acknowledging that I'm a human being and not ominscient.So was Jesus wrong to pick people to teach?
Maybe, just as I'm sure you'd pick and choose from LutherWell I'm sure you'd just pick and choose from him to.
And the church is...?I don't argue that any one person was flawless. I say that the church is.
Fail at what, that's the question. I don't believe He was talking about stuff like doctrines on baptism and such.It's a matter of checks and balances that Jesus established - and he promised that the church would not fail.
No wonder you don't understand that, because it's not what I'm doing.I've yet to understand why you argue passionately for being right about being wrong!
Not a pattern. An example.Holo takes examples of salvation before Jesus' resurrection as if they're the patterns for all time....
No, because you're taking one tiny portion of what I've said and assume that that's ALL I believe about it. I don't believe Jesus died to save the devils. Therefore, by holo's logic, the devils are not saved.By Holo's 'logic' the devils are saved too!
Maybe I missed something. The question is, WHY do you believe the things you believe. The closest I'm getting to an answer, if I've understood you correctly, is that "tradition says so" or "Iraneus" says so. What am I missing here?Not at all. I've evidenced my argument. You offer self-annhilating argument.
I take exception that you would reduce my argument to your series of 'just-so' statements
You must either now believe we're not of the Holy Spirit (our faith) or answer why did the Holy Spirit lead us to divisions of faith (in that we're different from you)no, of course not! You're not like us!
I'm happy to be basing my beliefs on the authority of the church. Is that worse then setting myself up as my own Pope? I don't think so! As my favourite author says...exactly the kind of attitude I've been talking about.
haughty, self-aggrandizing.
What things?lest you forget that the first to do what us dirty unwashed protestants have done, is YOU.
ah well. You're not like us.
(brings to mind a parable Jesus once taught....)
and if they believe in Christ as Lord and Saviour, yes, they are a part of the Church. What they do for worship it their perogative. I don't really care.
Evidence for Bible errors??? Where is it????
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