you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it. (2)

Montalban · Mar 22, 2008

I'm still waiting for any Protestant here, as they say they value Scripture to show where they should only rely on Scripture.

UphillBattle both argues it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you have faith, but argues against tradition. Why? It shouldn't matter.

It either does, or it doesn't!

Montalban · Mar 23, 2008

I'm still waiting for any Protestant here, as they say they value Scripture to show where they should only rely on Scripture.

UphillBattle both argues it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you have faith, but argues against tradition. Why? It shouldn't matter.

It either does, or it doesn't!

I'm still waiting for any Protestant here, as they say they value Scripture to show where they should only rely on Scripture.

UphillBattle both argues it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you have faith, but argues against tradition. Why? It shouldn't matter.

It either does, or it doesn't!

benedictaoo · Mar 23, 2008

Montalban said:
I'm still waiting for any Protestant here, as they say they value Scripture to show where they should only rely on Scripture.

UphillBattle both argues it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you have faith, but argues against tradition. Why? It shouldn't matter.

It either does, or it doesn't!

I'm still waiting for any Protestant here, as they say they value Scripture to show where they should only rely on Scripture.

UphillBattle both argues it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you have faith, but argues against tradition. Why? It shouldn't matter.

It either does, or it doesn't!

You're asking folks to face a truth they are not ready or willing to face.

They know it doesn't make any sense logically but Catholicism and Orthodoxy can't possibly be right so illogical trumps, it is their rational.

zeke37 · Mar 23, 2008

well, I'm a non denominational believer....and as such and as an x-catholic, I can say that there are many traditions in the church that are good and many that are not so good...in all denominations.

the good ones, we are to keep,

the bad ones, we are to avoid, as they make void the words of God.

the only way to see if a tradition should be kept, is to read it in the Word of God...if it is in There....keep it. If it is not, well..............

in His service
c

Montalban · Mar 23, 2008

zeke37 said:
well, I'm a non denominational believer....and as such and as an x-catholic, I can say that there are many traditions in the church that are good and many that are not so good...in all denominations.

the good ones, we are to keep,

the bad ones, we are to avoid, as they make void the words of God.

the only way to see if a tradition should be kept, is to read it in the Word of God...if it is in There....keep it. If it is not, well..............

in His service
c

You've just continued like others here to give an opinion that seems to suggest you're your own pope; declaring for yourself what to keep, what to discard.

What basis you make these decisions on is unstated.

Do you believe in sola scriptura?

Montalban · Mar 23, 2008

benedictaoo said:
You're asking folks to face a truth they are not ready or willing to face.

They know it doesn't make any sense logically but Catholicism and Orthodoxy can't possibly be right so illogical trumps, it is their rational.

So far UphillBattle's main argument is based on repeating a few statements "You just don't understand me", or "I can't be bothered answering you".

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

God is My Father and therefore there is only one that stand between Me and He and that is Jesus Christ...I have a High Priest and His Name is Jesus Christ...why the veneration of Mary and the Saints...we are all saints as we are made new By the Blood of Christ those who believe on Jesus Christ

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

God is My Father and therefore there is only one that stand between Me and He and that is Jesus Christ...I have a High Priest and His Name is Jesus Christ...why the veneration of Mary and the Saints...we are all saints as we are made new By the Blood of Christ those who believe on Jesus Christ

Montalban · Mar 23, 2008

Templedweller said:
God is My Father and therefore there is only one that stand between Me and He and that is Jesus Christ...I have a High Priest and His Name is Jesus Christ...why the veneration of Mary and the Saints...we are all saints as we are made new By the Blood of Christ those who believe on Jesus Christ

So we shouldn't follow the examples of people such as Mary?

Luke 1: 48for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,

Obviously not your generation, though?

By the way, where in the Bible does it say you should only follow the Bible?

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

As a non catholic I am asking why we ought to venerate or worship her have statuetes of her I havent ever had a Catholic answer that straight out

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

As a non catholic I am asking why we ought to venerate or worship her have statuetes of her I havent ever had a Catholic answer that straight out

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

follow not the traditions of man The Pharisees thought they were a okay before God Jesus rebuked them, pulled down their money tables and would not follow the traditions of men like wash your hands this and that certain way before eating...they were offended by Jesus radical disregaurd of Rules of Men

Templedweller · Mar 23, 2008

follow not the traditions of man The Pharisees thought they were a okay before God Jesus rebuked them, pulled down their money tables and would not follow the traditions of men like wash your hands this and that certain way before eating...they were offended by Jesus radical disregaurd of Rules of Men

Templedweller · Mar 22, 2008

HAve a Blessed Easter

holo · Mar 22, 2008

Montalban said:
What's the point. You say everyone can read into the Bible whatever they like. Why your interpretation of the Bible then is more valid than mine, if we can both eqaully interpret the Bible, is something known only to you.

Well, that's the whole point of this forum...

We have different interpretations, the discussion is about which interpretation makes the most sense.

Montalban said:
If God were so unconcerned, I expect that this then is another part of the Bible that you can discard.

I don't discard any part of the bible. I interpet certain passages differently than you do.

Montalban said:
Paul was obviously wrong to mention it

He wasn't wrong to mention it, but you are wrong to believe it applies to you. Just like you would be wrong to think the regulations about animal sacrifices applies to you.

The bible doesn't specifically say that "these regulations do not apply to Montalban", but it follows, as a matter of common sense and knowing the context.

Montalban said:
He doesn't say it should only be for his time, and in point of fact he argued against 'cutlural' things such as circumcision. Where Paul says "Do this only for now" I don't know. I've not seen it.

He didn't say "these are instructions for the church for ever and ever" either. He wrote to different churches and individual people, addressing their individual issues. Paul didn't say that that how he preached to the greek was something that should be repeated forever and ever either. He quoted their pagan philosophers, but that doesn't mean we necessarily go about doing the same every time we talk to a greek person. Instead we hold it up against the big clear lines of the bible, let "scripture interpret scripture", use common sense, and conclude that it was an example of how one person did one thing in a certain time. A valuable lesson? Absolutely. An eternal rule? No.

Montalban said:
You again offer no proof from the Bible... which you don't really believe anyway.

I believe the bible.

Montalban said:
Your whole confused stance is one of contradiction and self-annihalating argument.

When you're done with the insults, I'd appreciate it if you'd bother to answer my questions.

holo · Mar 23, 2008

Montalban said:
That's not the point. If you disagree with me on tithing as opposed to the fact I've demonstrated from the Bible it existed.

I don't agree with your "demonstration from the bible". I think you're mixing an old OT practice of tithing up with the NT idea of caring for the poor and sustaining the apostles economically.

Montalban said:
Then you argue against yourself by saying that anything can be interpreted from the Bible, which if true undermines your argument that it's not in the Bible anyway.

Anything can, and has been, argued from the bible. Including slavery and nazism. They are poor arguments, though, and IMO they are easily refuted. But most anything can be labelled "biblical". Every single denomination on Earth argues from the bible. So the question is, what is the best and most correct way to interpret it. I'm not saying every interpretation is equally valid.

Montalban said:
So you're back to a self-annhilating argument. You say tithing's not in the Bible, but anyone can interpret the Bible to mean anything, which means it can be interpreted as being in favour of tithing!

You have perhaps the worse arguments I've seen here so far...

Well don't blame me, because I never offered that argument...

Montalban said:
I don't mean to be rude but you demand I show evidence from the Bible

Actually I don't. This isn't a war anyway, I'm just asking you why you believe the things you do. Some arguments I may agree with, some arguments I may oppose. I'm not trying to put you on trial here.

Montalban said:
then you reject the Bible as you so wish anyway.

I've never rejected the bible.

Montalban said:
By that means - if I were to assume you were right - no one could ever know for sure anything about the Bible so all interpretations are equally valid which makes your objections pointless.

But then again I've never said that all interpretations are equally valid.

holo · Mar 22, 2008

Is it just me or are the posts getting all scrambled around here? I just posted something that got put back in between some older posts...? What's up?

Montalban,
if you're looking for my replies, one ended up as #66 on page 7, and the other as #76 on page 8.

holo · Mar 22, 2008

Why did this post get on page 7?!?

holo said:
Is it just me or are the posts getting all scrambled around here? I just posted something that got put back in between some older posts...? What's up?

Montalban,
if you're looking for my replies, one ended up as #66 on page 7, and the other as #76 on page 8.

holo · Mar 22, 2008

Testing...

holo · Mar 22, 2008

Testing...

you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it. (2)

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