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Featured You Shall Not Muzzle An Ox: 1 Corinthians 9

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Corinthians 9:
    9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about?
    10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt,
    is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.
    11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?
    12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?
    Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we
    hinder the gospel of Christ.
    13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the
    temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the altar?
    14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel
    should live from the gospel.

    Do you think that this passage can be used, as it often is, to justify
    becoming wealthy as a Christian preacher, teacher, author, lecturer,
    or conference speaker? In other words, gaining wealth directly from
    The Gospel?
     
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  2. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Corinthians 9:
    1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?
    Are you not my work in the Lord?
    2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the
    seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
    3 My defense to those who examine me is this:
    4 Do we have no right to eat and drink?
    5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles,
    the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
    6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working?
    7 Who goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat
    of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?
    8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also?
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Corinthians 9:
    15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it
    should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone
    should make my boasting void.
    16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid
    upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel!
    17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship.
    18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.
     
  4. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Corinthians 9:
    19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all,
    that I might win the more;
    20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are
    under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;
    21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God,
    but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law;
    22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all
    things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
    23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.
    24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
    25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they
    do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
    26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats
    the air.
    27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached
    to others, I myself should become disqualified.
     
  5. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    2 Thessalonians 6 (WEB)
    Warning Against Idleness
    1 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

    11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

    Paul may have needed assistance from his congregations time to time. This letter is evidence he worked hard to avoid impoverishing his people.
     
  6. WrappedUpinHisLove3

    WrappedUpinHisLove3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I really don't see Paul as some kind of modern day pastor taking it in with his private jet. He a really made most of his money from tent making, not the church.

    impressive because Paul having been a Pharisee would have probably had a decent standard of living. He gave that up to preach the gospel. Pretty awesome and very Christlike.
     
  7. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nothing justifies a preacher getting rich off the gospel.
     
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  8. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    is a pastor of a congregation entitled to make a living as his fulltime vocation ?
     
  9. Scott Husted

    Scott Husted Well-Known Member

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    No
     
  10. bèlla

    bèlla Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know many Christian entrepreneurs. Some created businesses that provide products and services to believers. I recall a situation where someone didn't want to spend $5 for a product. The owner made it affordable to increase accessibility. But this person wanted everything for free. She didn't budge on the price. It was too low in my opinion.

    You have some who balk at people earning a living through ministry. But they feel equally entitled to earn a living for themselves. Raises too! We all need a place to lay our head and provisions for life's necessities. Industriousness pays off.

    I'm glad I'm not called to the church. The money debates would grow tiresome. You can never satisfy everyone.

    Yours in His Service,

    ~Bella
     
  11. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Like all Christians, preachers who accumulate wealth above a certain limit cannot be considered to follow the law of Love / Charity. This is especially true for preachers even for a higher degree than other other believers:

    Jam 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

    I'm yet to decide on the net worth for preachers above which I would not be listening to them :).
     
  12. bèlla

    bèlla Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Everything under the heavens belongs to God. There is no biblical precedent that purports financial equality. Disparities exist throughout the bible. No two people have the same gifts, talents, calling or experiences. Some traits warrant greater compensation than others. :)

    The admonition was given because teachers were paid at that time. He warned those who were tempted to pursue it for monetary purposes. He reminded them they'll be judged.

    Yours in His Service,

    ~Bella
     
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  13. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Yes, of course. But accumulating wealth over and above what we can reasonably spend in a life time is not an indication of love to the world around us.

    I'm not against paying pastors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  14. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Did Paul become wealthy?
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I don’t think so, because it is also said:

    …Freely you received, so freely give.
    Matt. 10:8

    However, if preacher who peaks God’s words comes, I think it is ok to give food and place to sleep, if he doesn’t have one.
     
  16. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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  17. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    Very good post. A lot to think about in a concise way.

    Mark 14:7. For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you want, you can do good for them. But you will not always have me.

    Since you brought in the word "equality", this teaching came to mind, and may end up another thread.
    2 Corinthians 8:
    13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
    14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want,
    that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
    15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little
    had no lack.

    Paul encourages his Gentiles converts to support the impoverished Saints in Judea, as they were
    under persecution at the time.
    Romans 15:
    25 At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem bringing aid to the saints.
    26 For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among
    the saints at Jerusalem.
    27 For they were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have come
    to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings.
    With care to distinguish natural talents from spiritual gifts. Let their giving reflect their blessedness.
    2 Corinthians 8:12. For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has,
    not according to what he does not have.

    Above all this, soul prosperity.
    3 John 1:2. Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
    even as thy soul prospereth.
     
  18. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think if a pastor is preaching and teaching God word according to Truth, he deserves a living and even a retirement fund that is in keeping with the area he's in that will meet all his needs to include some travel and entertainment - not just a roof over his head and keeping him from starvation.

    In the U.S. in my opinion that's between 1 and 3 hundred thousand a year...

    Anything more the church should provide in charity to the needy but most pastors don't make what I've indicated as appropriate to the position.

    As far as personal respect? Even I have a tendency to respect pastors who work a job and do pastoral care free or low cost, but I do realize it's not necessary, the Bible does indicate we shouldn't begrudge a Pastor his wages..

    I feel if they are given wages they should be appropriate to a degreed worker in keeping with the area. (Should be able to afford housing, food, education for his children, a car that doesn't break down, car insurance, health insurance, clothing, money towards a retirement fund, money in savings for the what if's in life like car repairs and home repairs, some money for vacation and entertainment)

    Just my thoughts..
     
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  19. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Timothy 6:
    5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth,
    imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
    6 But godliness with contentment is great gain,
    7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.
     
  20. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

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    1 Timothy 6:10. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after,
    they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    Proverbs 10:22
    . The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and He addeth no sorrow with it.
     
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