You have turned my temple into a den of thieves

[steve Coe]

This verse is true remember the story where Jesus over turned the tables and chased them out with whips I understand now I had to pay a bunch of money just to become eligible to be ordained then pay more to get ordained now I have to pay more just for the clothes

 

[Hammster]

What money did you have to pay to be eligible?

 

[Bobber]

This verse is true remember the story where Jesus over turned the tables and chased them out with whips I understand now I had to pay a bunch of money just to become eligible to be ordained then pay more to get ordained now I have to pay more just for the clothes

I don't know what Christian religious system you're from but who said you had to pay anything? You could have told them to jump in the lake right? If you felt so strongly against their methods why did you go along with it.?

 

[lanceleo]

If you need to pay to get ordained get out.

 

[linux.poet]

Friend, I think you need to get yourself out of this cult or scam that you have gotten yourself into. Ordination is just so you can officiate weddings, and it's always completely free.

Seminary isn't free though.

 

[Saucy]

I'm currently going to a Christian university and getting a degree to become a pastor. When I am ready, my church will ordain me. I won't have to pay a dime. I chose the degree though, so it's not like you have to go to bible college, as there are several pastors in my church who didn't go to bible college. They showed themselves to be approved and were ordained as pastors. We just ordained a handful of deacons...they didn't pay a dime. You don't have to pay to be ordained unless you are trying to take the shortcut.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Become ordained as a Dudeist Priest. That’s free.

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

This verse is true remember the story where Jesus over turned the tables and chased them out with whips I understand now I had to pay a bunch of money just to become eligible to be ordained then pay more to get ordained now I have to pay more just for the clothes

This passage is, in my opinion, one of the most misunderstood and under appreciated passages in Christ's ministry, but it isn't the only relevant passage concerning finances in the ministry. It is of note that this is the only instance in Christ's ministry where He was moved to an act of anarchy. It seems from the rest of your post that you are directly correlating this interaction and admonition with your own experience in becoming "ordained". I put ordained in quotations because you don't really give enough info that I even understand what you mean by "ordained". I will assume you mean being ordained by some Christian church or denomination. While I am curious as to which church or denomination, I will give my general thoughts on the passage and the subject more broadly. You also mention "I had to pay a bunch of money just to become eligible to be ordained and then pay more to get ordained.' Again I'm curious, to whom did you pay this money and what did you receive to"be eligible to be ordained"? Then to whom must you pay to become ordained?

The last thing you mention is "Now, I have to pay more for the clothes". I will assume here that you are in a denomination or church which requires a certain costume or articles of clothing in order to be a pastor or preacher. To this, I will state that God never ordained any costumes and Christ never required any certain clothing for His followers, so I believe that those churches who have such requirements are missing the point of being ordained by God.

Now, to the bigger question. I believe that we must always look at everything Christ said on any subject in order to form a belief on the matter. In this case, there's really two instances where Christ taught us on this subject. Let's start with the one you mention. In Matthew Chapter 21 it says "12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Mark and Luke share very similar accounts and John goes into a little more detail. In John Chapter 2 we read "13And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise." So, what exactly drove Christ to such a response? What were these people doing to incite the ire or Christ to the point that He took whips to them and overturned their tables. They were doing what many churches today are doing. Selling stuff for the purposes of worshiping God. More to the point, they were profiting from the worship of God. Christ made clear that we are not to profit from the worship of God or the Gospel.

Now, let's look at the other reference by Christ to a similar subject. There are two instances where Christ ordained disciples who were going out to preach the Gospel. In Matthew Chapter 9, He is sending out the 12 Apostles. He told them 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet." In Luke Chapter 10 we read where He is sending out (or ordaining) 70 people to preach. He told them "3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. 5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:" In both instances He gave them basically the same instructions. These are the only things He said to those who would preach the Gospel in addition to all the things He taught for all other followers. He said "freely ye have received, freely give" and admonished them to "Provide neither gold, nor silver nor brass in your purses." In other words, He told them not to profit from or accept money for preaching the Gospel. This is why the Catholic church requires a vow of poverty for preisthood. He goes on to mention not to take shoes nor staves. These are two things that were considered necessary for foot travel in the day. So, why would Christ command His disciples not to use these things that might make their travels a little more comfortable? I'll not get into trying to determine why but it's consistent with all His teachings that following Him will be no bed of roses. As for the two coats, it was a tradition in those days to carry an extra coat when traveling because when traveling (especially on foot) on the dusty roads of the time, one's coat would become dusty and dirty, so the extra coat was to put on when one reached their destination so as not to be running around in a dirty coat. Christ was saying, wear the dirty coat! They say "Clothes don't make the man" but maybe the dirty coat does say something about being concerned with such earthly worries as clean clothes. At any rate, we have from the words of Christ two distinct references to finances as it relates to the church and/or those who preach the gospel.

He ran out the sellers and the money changers because He declared they had made the house of God into "a den of theives". Were they actually stealing? No, they were selling and we know that selling things such as necessities was never forbidden. So, the only difference is what and where they were selling. They were selling things meant for worship of God and doing it in the church. (or temple) So, what would Christ say about the modern churches where you can find everything from devotional books, to prayer cloths, to t-shirts, to pictures of some long haired renaissance dude they call Christ for sale. And what about those who sell song books and sermon books at a profit to the church and preachers? And then there's those who profit from selling tickets to their seminars and retreats or their Holy Land tours? And then there are those who hold "revivals" where they then try to sell you their books or devotional items. Everyone these days it seems is profiting from the Gospel and the Worship of God. It's big business!

Christ also told His Disciples not to accept money for preaching. How many"preachers" have made millions from their ministries? And what about all the Seminaries where many people earn a pretty handsome living teaching those who wish to serve God? Or all the "Gospel" music for profit?

Let's put these things into an accounting perspective. Sales of Christian music recordings are over 1/2 billion dollars annually. A 2021 article in Ultimate Guitar states that almost $600 million is spent annually on audio equipment and instruments for performing church music. According to ChurchSalary.com the average church spends slightly less than 50% of the offerings it brings in on salaries. Estimates for Christian book sales are between $750M and $1B dollars annually. We've turned the church into a corporate juggernaut.

So, my advice to you is simply forget what anyone wants you to pay (or what they want to pay you) and get on with teaching of the Gospel of Christ and not the gospel of money or profit. "You cannot serve God and mammon".

 

[com7fy8]

This verse is true remember the story where Jesus over turned the tables and chased them out with whips I understand now I had to pay a bunch of money just to become eligible to be ordained then pay more to get ordained now I have to pay more just for the clothes

In the United Sates, at least in Massachusetts, I think I heard that you need to pay for a license so legally you can pronounce marriages and bury people.

But is it Biblical to sell your ministry? Jesus told the disciples, >

"Freely you have received, freely give." (in Matthew 10:8)

What would you think of a brother or sister who made you pay for what your own father had to say or write or sing to you, or pray for you? Your father loves you dearly; so would he expect you to pay for what he does to love you?

If a woman sells "love", what is that called??

"Let all that you do be done with love " (1 Corinthians 16:14)

It is well known how in Christian loving we give without requiring anything in return. And our Biblical leaders are to be "examples to the flock." (in 1 Peter 5:3) As our "examples", then, I see that they need to give freely of their ministry.

Jesus freely gave Himself for us, on the cross. And we are commanded to love the way He has loved us >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

But don't be legalistic about this. There are people whom God wants us to support. But I find how ministers who get payed are available to anyone freely for their ministry. They get payed, but no one is directly made to pay to be ministered to by them.

 

[Lost Witness]

I'm currently going to a Christian university and getting a degree to become a pastor. When I am ready, my church will ordain me. I won't have to pay a dime. I chose the degree though, so it's not like you have to go to bible college, as there are several pastors in my church who didn't go to bible college. They showed themselves to be approved and were ordained as pastors. We just ordained a handful of deacons...they didn't pay a dime. You don't have to pay to be ordained unless you are trying to take the shortcut.

Oh?
So one doesn't have to attend a college to be a Pastor?
Need to look into this.
don't think it's likely I'll ever be a Pastor in a Church but I do When reading scripture...tend to start off quiet and next thing you know I'm practically proclaiming the WORD like I'm reading it from the hilltops