You Can't Be Racist to Whites-TSU

Ana the Ist · Jun 4, 2018

So, a girl who apparently enrolled at Texas State University tweeted a fairly innocuous statement that garnered a rather harsh reaction from much of Texas State University's student body....

Texas State University students: You can’t be racist to white people

All she wrote was...

"Any race can be racist, change my mind"

The responses she got were rather overwhelmingly either ignorant or downright hostile. Many reproached her with statements of how it wasn't possible to be racist against whites...and some even told her not to attend the university.

She did, of course, have some support...some pointed out the obvious racism in the tweets which responded to her, but it seems like these were in the minority.

I'd say that it doesn't look good for the current generation of students to be so woefully ignorant of a topic they so often claim to think important. I'd say it's even worse for the professors and faculty who have failed to teach these students.

Some of you may remember Texas State University from the headlines not long ago when their student newspaper ran an article about how "white DNA is an abomination". Posters here even tried to brush it off as hyperbolic, satirical, or otherwise exaggerated. I remember a poster even believed that since the author was a philosophy major, that had something to do with it.

Seems to me like it might have been a symptom of a larger problem.

Thoughts?

frater_domus · Jun 4, 2018

Yep, the double standard of racism. What did Jesus say?
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
(Matthew 7:3-5 KJV)

Egocentrism is an issue. If you look outwards, you will miss your own flaws.

Inkfingers · Jun 4, 2018

The "you cannot be racist to white people" position just looks like yet more evidence that education is no cure for stupidity....or at least is not a cure for dishonesty as people will use whatever tool to hand (in this case claiming that only one side can be racism) in order to grab power.

Inkfingers · Jun 4, 2018

People have to remember that Postmodernism is Postmodernists admitting what they, Postmodernists, are like and what motivates them (Power and ego).

dzheremi · Jun 4, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Thoughts?

Seems like all of these people must be very fun to hang out with.

I'm glad I am not in college anymore, and that when I was I apparently escaped all of this stuff. Maybe I lucked out by living in New Mexico, which despite being very liberal in Albuquerque proper (or I should say, on its state campus found there) also has a republican governor (Susana Martinez), so there's more of a mix or spectrum of ideologies at play in the overall culture of the state (e.g., there are visibly Catholic crisis pregnancy centers in town that exist alongside Planned Parenthood, and nobody tries to bomb or harass the 'other side', as far as I ever saw or heard about). I would think the same thing is definitely true in Texas, however, as I know that the big cities and their universities tend to be more liberal (as places filled with young college kids usually are) than other areas.

At any rate, I'm not sure how much of it is a problem that can primarily be pinned on these kids, though certainly they're not doing themselves or others any favors with this sort of thing. Still, I look around at people who are not in college, who haven't been in college for years (decades, even), or maybe never went to begin with, and I don't see any less of a propensity to fight over things like this among them than I do among younger people, perhaps only a bit more sophistication than just coming out and saying "I believe X; prove me wrong" (and that's a pretty big 'bit'; sadly, sophistication does not always come with age or experience).

It's easy to look at kids and shake your heads (believe me, I want to do that pretty much every time I have to talk to anyone more than maybe five years younger than me, and I am only in my later 30s), but much harder and therefore hopefully more helpful to look at ourselves and our own actions and attitudes. If you've ever thought or said (or typed...) "only an idiot would vote for/believe/say/defend X", then you're not far from the kind of behavior that these kids engaged in. I know I've done it.

We're having a society-wide Balkanization problem, not (just) a "college kids sure are ignorant" problem. This sort of incident is only a symptom of it.

Ana the Ist · Jun 4, 2018

dzheremi said:
Seems like all of these people must be very fun to hang out with.

I'm glad I am not in college anymore, and that when I was I apparently escaped all of this stuff. Maybe I lucked out by living in New Mexico, which despite being very liberal in Albuquerque proper (or I should say, on its state campus found there) also has a republican governor (Susana Martinez), so there's more of a mix or spectrum of ideologies at play in the overall culture of the state (e.g., there are visibly Catholic crisis pregnancy centers in town that exist alongside Planned Parenthood, and nobody tries to bomb or harass the 'other side', as far as I ever saw or heard about). I would think the same thing is definitely true in Texas, however, as I know that the big cities and their universities tend to be more liberal (as places filled with young college kids usually are) than other areas.

At any rate, I'm not sure how much of it is a problem that can primarily be pinned on these kids, though certainly they're not doing themselves or others any favors with this sort of thing. Still, I look around at people who are not in college, who haven't been in college for years (decades, even), or maybe never went to begin with, and I don't see any less of a propensity to fight over things like this among them than I do among younger people, perhaps only a bit more sophistication than just coming out and saying "I believe X; prove me wrong" (and that's a pretty big 'bit'; sadly, sophistication does not always come with age or experience).

It's easy to look at kids and shake your heads (believe me, I want to do that pretty much every time I have to talk to anyone more than maybe five years younger than me, and I am only in my later 30s), but much harder and therefore hopefully more helpful to look at ourselves and our own actions and attitudes. If you've ever thought or said (or typed...) "only an idiot would vote for/believe/say/defend X", then you're not far from the kind of behavior that these kids engaged in. I know I've done it.

We're having a society-wide Balkanization problem, not (just) a "college kids sure are ignorant" problem. This sort of incident is only a symptom of it.

For the record, I don't know the motives of the girl who posted the tweet. It could've been a very effective attempt to troll the student body (which still doesn't make them look very good), it could've been a very deliberate attempt to begin a dialogue (and she did respond to some of the replies), or it could've been an attempt to gauge the level of racism at the university she wanted to attend (looking up the university on a google search shows it's been dealing with several racial issues in the last couple of years)....I honestly don't know. I would lean towards the idea that she just wanted to start a conversation about the topic and was highly successful...I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The only thing that's disturbing to me is the amount of ignorance paraded by some posters and the outright hostility of others. The was one response which claimed...without a hint of joking...that white people "invented racism". There was another that was by someone so fragile that they claimed that her tweet was an attack on poc. Yet another student recommended that her tweet was reason enough for a mandatory racial sensitivity training for all incoming students.

I happen to agree with that last statement...just not the way he meant it. I think it would do a lot of good for all incoming students to have some sort of racism course that explains everyone can be racist regardless of race and it's always wrong...regardless of race. Ideally, it would also explain college policies about racism and how they apply equally towards all races and racism of any kind will be punished as such.

Where this idea of "only whites are racist" or that "you cannot be racist towards whites"...is not only false, its damaging to our nation in the long run.

Kentonio · Jun 4, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
Where this idea of "only whites are racist" or that "you cannot be racist towards whites"...is not only false, its damaging to our nation in the long run.

That idea was never intended for the long term, it was always a short term mindset along with programs like AA, which were intended to rebalance historical wrongs. The cost was white people having to suck it up for a few years while black people got a leg up and a chance to finally start to catch up.

Instead even a few years of not getting everything our own way was far too much for many white people to possibly bear. Sure, a couple of centuries of blacks being treated as subhuman was ok, but as soon as even a faint echo of that was directed at white people it became absolutely intolerable.

I’m white, and seriously if you’re white and whining about racism then there’s at least a 99% chance that you’re being kind of pathetic.

Radagast · Jun 4, 2018

Kentonio said:
I’m white, and seriously if you’re white and whining about racism then there’s at least a 99% chance that you’re being kind of pathetic.

And that's nonsense.

If you're a person from a disadvantaged background who has struggled to get an education, but who is denied a place in college based on your skin colour, then you are a victim of racism.

That remains true whether your skin colour is black, brown, white, or something else.

Kentonio · Jun 4, 2018

Radagast said:
And that's nonsense.

If you're a person from a disadvantaged background who has struggled to get an education, but who is denied a place in college based on your skin colour, then you are a victim of racism.

That remains true whether your skin colour is black, brown, white, or something else.

You might have noticed the inclusion of ‘you’re 99% likely’ in my post. That was relevant. People missing a college place or a job because of an affirmative action program, then yes it’s a form of racism and it sucks. You know what sucks more though? Having had 5 generations or more of your family treated like animals who never even had the opportunity to go to a decent high school let alone college. Affirmative actions were an unfortunate but necessary temporary tool to try and slightly rebalance a wildly unfair system. If you think it’s unfair, you’re right. But if you ignore the reasons why it was necessary, then you’re only seeing one small part of the bigger picture.

bhsmte · Jun 4, 2018

Anyone can be racist, no matter their color or background and racism of all types exist.

Now, it certainly appears, that certain types of racism allegations, get more attention and are generally believed, even without evidence to support.

super animator · Jun 4, 2018

Kentonio said:
You might have noticed the inclusion of ‘you’re 99% likely’ in my post.

Which is quite a convenient cop out if I do say so myself.

Hank77 · Jun 4, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
I happen to agree with that last statement...just not the way he meant it. I think it would do a lot of good for all incoming students to have some sort of racism course that explains everyone can be racist regardless of race and it's always wrong...regardless of race. Ideally, it would also explain college policies about racism and how they apply equally towards all races and racism of any kind will be punished as such.

I agree.

Radagast · Jun 4, 2018

Kentonio said:
You might have noticed the inclusion of ‘you’re 99% likely’ in my post. That was relevant. People missing a college place or a job because of an affirmative action program, then yes it’s a form of racism and it sucks.

And it affects more than 1% of the population.

Kentonio said:
You know what sucks more though? Having had 5 generations or more of your family treated like animals who never even had the opportunity to go to a decent high school let alone college.

So, because of the genuine racism suffered by generations long dead, we should practice racism against other people now? That makes no sense.

Kentonio said:
Affirmative actions were an unfortunate but necessary temporary tool to try and slightly rebalance a wildly unfair system.

You fix an unfair system by making it fair, not by making it unfair "the other way." And affirmative action programs were not "temporary." They've been around since the 60s.

dgiharris · Jun 4, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
The responses she got were rather overwhelmingly either ignorant or downright hostile. Many reproached her with statements of how it wasn't possible to be racist against whites...

The tweets and arguments that it is "impossible" to be racist against whites all center around one logical premise and definition. The premise/definition "defines" racism as "the systematic oppression by one group over another". The premise then goes to assert that "only the dominant group can oppress another group". Thus, in the West, since Whites are the dominant group it therefore is "impossible" for whites to experience racism.

Then there is word play between racism and prejudice. The people that say that it is impossible to be racist against whites will AGREE that it is possible to be prejudice against whites.

So the above is more or less a word play argument following a definition and subsequent premise.

There are people like me who believe that the words racism and prejudice are equal and interchangeable terms. ANd so, since I believe the terms are interchangeable then I 100% believe that it is possible to be racist against Whites.

Basically, people that say it is impossible to be racist against Whites are doing so because they are using different definitions of the word than your definition of the word.

However, there are some ignorant people whom's argument is so based in emotion that they just aren't thinking logically about the subject and are actually harming race relations.

Once you account for the varying "definitions and semantics" everyone is using, I think that the vast majority on both sides of the argument are in agreement. It is possible for one group to have incorrect views and take incorrect actions towards another group. It is possible for one group to wrong another group regardless of the group in question.

Rubiks · Jun 4, 2018

Kentonio said:
You might have noticed the inclusion of ‘you’re 99% likely’ in my post. That was relevant. People missing a college place or a job because of an affirmative action program, then yes it’s a form of racism and it sucks. You know what sucks more though? Having had 5 generations or more of your family treated like animals who never even had the opportunity to go to a decent high school let alone college. Affirmative actions were an unfortunate but necessary temporary tool to try and slightly rebalance a wildly unfair system. If you think it’s unfair, you’re right. But if you ignore the reasons why it was necessary, then you’re only seeing one small part of the bigger picture.

Nobody's whining about racism against whites. People are complaining about the mentality that prejudice against whites is acceptable or even encouraged because reason so and so. The world should have a post-racial society and those who have prejudiced attitudes against whites in the present because of the actions of whites of the past are just as much of a hinderance to that vision as your typical confederate flag-waving southerner.

Phil 1:21 · Jun 4, 2018

I'm always amazed at the brazenness with which some folks who claim to fight against prejudice engage in it openly.

super animator · Jun 4, 2018

dgiharris said:
The tweets and arguments that it is "impossible" to be racist against whites all center around one logical premise and definition. The premise/definition "defines" racism as "the systematic oppression by one group over another". The premise then goes to assert that "only the dominant group can oppress another group". Thus, in the West, since Whites are the dominant group it therefore is "impossible" for whites to experience racism.

Then there is word play between racism and prejudice. The people that say that it is impossible to be racist against whites will AGREE that it is possible to be prejudice against whites.

So the above is more or less a word play argument following a definition and subsequent premise.

There are people like me who believe that the words racism and prejudice are equal and interchangeable terms. ANd so, since I believe the terms are interchangeable then I 100% believe that it is possible to be racist against Whites.

Basically, people that say it is impossible to be racist against Whites are doing so because they are using different definitions of the word than your definition of the word.

However, there are some ignorant people whom's argument is so based in emotion that they just aren't thinking logically about the subject and are actually harming race relations.

Once you account for the varying "definitions and semantics" everyone is using, I think that the vast majority on both sides of the argument are in agreement. It is possible for one group to have incorrect views and take incorrect actions towards another group. It is possible for one group to wrong another group regardless of the group in question.

It sounds like your describing the infamous schematics argument.

ripple the car · Jun 4, 2018

Ana the Ist said:
So, a girl who apparently enrolled at Texas State University tweeted a fairly innocuous statement that garnered a rather harsh reaction from much of Texas State University's student body....

Texas State University students: You can’t be racist to white people

All she wrote was...

"Any race can be racist, change my mind"

The responses she got were rather overwhelmingly either ignorant or downright hostile. Many reproached her with statements of how it wasn't possible to be racist against whites...and some even told her not to attend the university.

She did, of course, have some support...some pointed out the obvious racism in the tweets which responded to her, but it seems like these were in the minority.

I'd say that it doesn't look good for the current generation of students to be so woefully ignorant of a topic they so often claim to think important. I'd say it's even worse for the professors and faculty who have failed to teach these students.

Some of you may remember Texas State University from the headlines not long ago when their student newspaper ran an article about how "white DNA is an abomination". Posters here even tried to brush it off as hyperbolic, satirical, or otherwise exaggerated. I remember a poster even believed that since the author was a philosophy major, that had something to do with it.

Seems to me like it might have been a symptom of a larger problem.

Thoughts?

I witnessed something weird the other day. Just wanted to let you guys know.

Some folks have claimed that a number of (but not all) supposedly racist non-violent events that garner huge amounts of media attention are, in fact, staged. I got this impression with the Starbuck's incident. If an African-American is behaving oddly, rudely, unprofessionally, or illegally (yet not violently), a white person can not say anything to them or make any demands on their behavior, lest they be called racist.

The other day in my place of work, a group of five or six African-American women came in, and they were LOUD. Not like normal loud, or jovial, but so loud that everyone in our large store could hear them. Screaming. At eachother and in general, unnecessarily. The whole time. Other customers looked visibly uncomfortable, and shot me nervous, concerned "can't you do anything?" looks. I asked a manager what we could do, and let me know that all we could do was provide excellent customer service. Ok. So I went up to them (they were shopping, not loitering) and just let them know that if they needed anything, to please let me know. They got up in my face jeering and laughing then walked away mocking me. Still incredibly loud. Had I politely asked them to lower their volume, I have *no doubt* that it would have spiraled downwards into a charged, racial incident. Something about the whole encounter felt like a set up.

Ana the Ist · Jun 4, 2018

Kentonio said:
That idea was never intended for the long term, it was always a short term mindset along with programs like AA, which were intended to rebalance historical wrongs. The cost was white people having to suck it up for a few years while black people got a leg up and a chance to finally start to catch up.

Not sure what you mean by "catch up"?

Do you see black people as "behind" you in some way?

Instead even a few years of not getting everything our own way was far too much for many white people to possibly bear. Sure, a couple of centuries of blacks being treated as subhuman was ok, but as soon as even a faint echo of that was directed at white people it became absolutely intolerable.

You think white people should tolerate being treated as "subhuman"?

I’m white, and seriously if you’re white and whining about racism then there’s at least a 99% chance that you’re being kind of pathetic.

Because racism is something you should just put up with if you're white?

Ana the Ist · Jun 4, 2018

dgiharris said:
The tweets and arguments that it is "impossible" to be racist against whites all center around one logical premise and definition. The premise/definition "defines" racism as "the systematic oppression by one group over another". The premise then goes to assert that "only the dominant group can oppress another group". Thus, in the West, since Whites are the dominant group it therefore is "impossible" for whites to experience racism.

Makes me wonder what word they use in place of "oppression" these days....

Then there is word play between racism and prejudice. The people that say that it is impossible to be racist against whites will AGREE that it is possible to be prejudice against whites.

So the above is more or less a word play argument following a definition and subsequent premise.

Yeah, I've seen that statement on here actually..."its only prejudice". As if race-based prejudice were something inconsequential in their eyes next to horrible horrible racism.

There are people like me who believe that the words racism and prejudice are equal and interchangeable terms. ANd so, since I believe the terms are interchangeable then I 100% believe that it is possible to be racist against Whites.

Here's the thing I've noticed....even amongst those who use a newly created definition of racism or prejudice, they still repeatedly fall into the old definition of racism whenever they're talking about non-whites.

Take this Roseanne Barr tweet incident. I'm guessing you didn't see anyone jumping in to point out that it doesn't meet the definition of racism since Roseanne doesn't oppress anyone? Sure, she has a larger audience than most...but there's nothing to suggest she has any real influence over that audience. By the standards of "new racism" what she said was prejudiced...but not racist. It doesn't oppress anyone.

Yet the same people who would tell you that you cannot be racist against whites are the same people calling her racist for her tweet and applauding the cancellation of her show.

Basically, people that say it is impossible to be racist against Whites are doing so because they are using different definitions of the word than your definition of the word.

I don't think they really are though...they claim to be, but it seems more like a device to justify their own racism towards whites.

However, there are some ignorant people whom's argument is so based in emotion that they just aren't thinking logically about the subject and are actually harming race relations.

Once you account for the varying "definitions and semantics" everyone is using, I think that the vast majority on both sides of the argument are in agreement. It is possible for one group to have incorrect views and take incorrect actions towards another group. It is possible for one group to wrong another group regardless of the group in question.

You're more optimistic than me.

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