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Saint Peter is in Matthew 16:13-20. What one makes of that is a matter subject to much debate today.
No doubt there is an answer. I believe the answer that my Church gives.Very well. We have established 1) that there is a church and a reason to think it would continue on and prevail. At other places 2) we have various references to Peter.
We are wanting to know what basis there is for claiming that there is, "the continuity of the Church as promised to Peter...."
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" Mat 16:18
How do Protestants explain the continuity of the Church as promised to Peter (and the disciples, presumably), that "the gates of Hell will not overcome it", when the Church seems to have faced a serious rupture, assuming the various Protestant sects are true. What kind of continuity does Luther or Calvin have with Thomas Aquinas or Anselm, for instance? Were people in the middle ages saved through the sacraments of the Church and their faith, such as they had it? If so, why the need for schism?
Yeah. In Luther's Larger Catechism on the Apostles Creed he seems to suggest that the Church is a local congregation of believers that gather around the Word rightly preached and Sacraments. OK... but where was the Church in the Middle Ages then? How do Lutherans and the Reformed understand the schism if they claim continuity with the early Church, which in my mind was an organic entity, not a set of doctrines to be mined.
Were Augustine, Jerome, Anselm and Aquinas proto-Lutherans? How about the hundreds of thousands of ordinary, often illiterate people that just went to church to stare at the priest elevating the Host, and maybe receiving the Precious Blood through a fistula (straw) if they were lucky, and praying to the saints and having votive masses for their dead relatives?
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" Mat 16:18
How do Protestants explain the continuity of the Church as promised to Peter (and the disciples, presumably), that "the gates of Hell will not overcome it", when the Church seems to have faced a serious rupture, assuming the various Protestant sects are true. What kind of continuity does Luther or Calvin have with Thomas Aquinas or Anselm, for instance? Were people in the middle ages saved through the sacraments of the Church and their faith, such as they had it? If so, why the need for schism?
There are plenty people in the Church's history that fought for rightful reform and avoided schism. In the final analysis Luther did schism because of pride and the result is many were led into heresy.
He led nobody into heresy. And we have had examples of what a self serving, highly centralised, organisation can lead to very recently.
Yes, it was very likely inevitable but as Jesus said "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come"It's more complicated than that, otherwise the Lollards and Moravians would have taken over Europe, but they didn't. Politics played a role too.
Most historians see the Reformation as inevitable. Rising state power combined with religious corruption.
The Catholic Church embraces the second Vatican council but that need not necessarily mean that every individual Catholic does. People can be remarkably perverse if they want to. The Church, however, teaches the very things that the second Vatican council proclaims.The Roman Catholic Church has acknowledge the causes of the Reformation are not unilateral. Antipopes, Avignon Papacy, Great Western Schism, is just a short list.
And some historians would say the institutional focus of the Church, articulated in the doctrines, made that sort of thing inevitable. The same things have been said about the priestly abuse scandals, the attitude of clericalism fostered an atmosphere without accountability.
If the Roman Catholic Church fully embraced Vatican II in spirit (and I'm not talking about guitar masses), I'd probably be the first in line to swim the Tiber. I don't like the Reformation happened at all, honestly. But... what are we going to do about it?
Those Catholics who use artificial means of contraception are not doing so as an act of faith in God, are they? There will without doubt be good reasons for their choice but is serving God faithfully in their marital relations one of them? Some may say it is, but many would not. So artificial contraception use among Catholics is not likely to be a case of sensus fidelium. It very likely is a matter of economic necessity, convenience, or something else.A good example, the hierarchy of the Roman Church has little respect for the sensus fidelium. Most Roman Catholics use birth control and they believe it is best for their families. Most want greater inclusion for divorced and gay Catholics. These people aren't ignorant of Church teaching, they've just looked at the moral theology used and found it wanting. But they have no power in their church to actually elect bishops, something that was done in the early Church.
Except we know he was martyred there. And replaced by another.If the "Peter = Rock" concept is true, then the real "mother church" ceases to be Jerusalem (as per instructions of the Christ led Apostles) and forget Rome (for which even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits no evidence he was Bishop there), then Antioch (where Peter was definitely the first Bishop years before Rome) is it...
and thus all should become Antiochene Orthodox...
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