"You Also?"

[Jim1]

Hello,
​

This is what Paul says in Ephesians 2:17-22:
​

(Nestle-Aland Greek text) Ephesians 2:17 kai elqwn euhggelisato eirhnhn UMIN toiV makran kai eirhnhn toiV egguV 18 oti di autou ECOMEN thn prosagwghn OI AMFOTEROI en eni pneumati proV ton patera 19 ara oun ouketi este xenoi kai paroikoi alla este sumpolitai twn agiwn kai oikeioi tou qeou 20 epoikodomhqenteV epi tw qemeliw twn apostolwn kai profhtwn ontoV akrogwniaiou autou cristou ihsou 21 en w PASA OIKODOMH sunarmologoumenh auxei eiV naon agion en kuriw 22 en w kai UMEIV SUNOIKODOMEISQE eiV katoikhthrion tou qeou en pneumati
​

Ephesians 2:17 And having come, He preached peace to YOU, the far ones, and peace to the near ones, 2:18 that through Him WE, THE BOTH, have the access by one Spirit to the Father. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens but you are fellow citizens of the saints and family members of God, 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, the cornerstone being Christ Jesus Himself, 2:21 in whom ALL (THE) BUILDING, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in (the) Lord, 2:22 in whom also YOU are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
​

Having explicitly established in verse 2:18 that "we" refers to all believers, which of course includes the referent of "you," all believers (we) being metaphorically referenced in verse 2:21 by the phrase "all (the) building," there is no basis for Paul to say "you also" in verse 2:22. If, contrary to what virtually all English versions of the New Testament say, Paul is not saying "you also" in verse 2:22, then what is he saying? He has to be saying exactly what the Greek in verses 2:21-22 says he is saying: "in whom" (en w) and "in whom also" (en w kai). So Paul is not saying "you also" but "in whom also" in verse 2:22, and he is interchangeably using "you" (the believers to whom the epistle is written) where he would normally use "we" (all believers) in expressing what is true of all believers (we) in verse 2:22 in order to make what he is saying to be true of all believes (we) more personal for the believers to whom the epistle is written (you).
​

So why do virtually all of the English versions of the New Testament say "you also" in Ephesians 2:22 when Paul is obviously not saying "you also?"
​

Sincerely,
​

Jim
​

 

[Singleman]

Just to hazard a guess, the context of 2:11-22 concerns the unity between Gentiles and Jews as God's people. So, the "you also" refers to Gentile Christians who are as much as part of God's holy temple as are believing Jews. Whether this is an accurate word-for-word translation or not, the meaning seems fairly clear.

 

[Jim1]

Dear Singleman,



Singleman:

Just to hazard a guess, the context of 2:11-22 concerns the unity between Gentiles and Jews as God's people. So, the "you also" refers to Gentile Christians who are as much as part of God's holy temple as are believing Jews. Whether this is an accurate word-for-word translation or not, the meaning seems fairly clear.



Jim:

But who would the other group be to whom "you" (the believers to whom the epistle is written) would be added according to the phrase "you also?" It couldn’t be "we," because "you" is already included in "we" (all believers), as seen in verse 2:18. It couldn’t be "all the building" (a metaphor for "we," all believers) in verse 2:21, in which "you" is already included. So who would the other group be? There does not appear to be another group. There does not appear to be two groups of believers but only one group (we). Paul excludes neither himself nor the believers to whom he is writing the epistle (you) from the one group of believers identified as "we." The translated phrase "you also" suggests two separate groups of believers. However, Paul appears to view all believers as one group (we), which renders the translated phrase "you also" impossible.

Add to the impossibility of the phrase "you also" the fact that it is not likely to be a mere coincidence that the phrase "en w" (in whom) does not have the conjunction "kai" (also) attached to it in verse 2:21 (en w, in whom) but does have the conjunction attached to it in verse 2:22 (en w kai, in whom also), and I think that it should have been obvious to the translators of the various English versions of the New Testament that Paul was not saying "you also" in verse 2:22 but "in whom" and "in whom also" in verses 2:21-22.

The same thing occurs in Ephesians 1:7-13. The phrase "en w" (in whom) appears without the conjunction "kai" (also) the first time that it is used (verse 1:7), but then it appears with the conjunction (en w kai, in whom also) every subsequent time that it is used (verses 1:11 and 1:13): "in whom … in whom also … in whom also … in whom also." Is that just a coincidence? Is the fact that it happens again in verses 2:21-22 (in whom … in whom also) likewise just a coincidence? Is the fact that Paul defines all believers as a single group identified as "we" (2:18), in which both he and the believers to whom he is writing the epistle (you) are included, which renders the phrase "you also" impossible, likewise just another coincidence?

Paul uses the phrase "en w kai" (in whom also) in Ephesians 1:11, 1:13 and 2:22. I see no more reason to conclude that Paul uses this phrase to say "we" and "you also" in verses 1:12-13 than I see reason to conclude that he uses it to say "we" and "we also" in verses 1:7-11 or "all the building" (we) and "you also" in verses 2:21-22. On the other hand, what Paul actually says in the Greek ("in whom … in whom also … in whom also … in whom also" in verses 1:7-13, and "in whom … in whom also" in verses 2:21-22) makes perfect sense.

It appears to me that Paul neither says "we also" in Ephesians 1:11 nor says "you also" in Ephesians 1:13 and 2:22, but that he says "in whom" and "in whom also" in Ephesians 1:7-13 and in Ephesians 2:21-22 in expressing various things that are true of all believers in Christ.

In Ephesians 1:7-13, Paul says this:

IN WHOM we have the redemption (1:7).

IN WHOM ALSO we were chosen as a possession (1:11).

IN WHOM ALSO having believed (1:13).

IN WHOM ALSO you were sealed (1:13).

In Ephesians 2:21-22, Paul says this:

IN WHOM all the building (we) is growing into a holy temple (2:21).

IN WHOM ALSO you are being built together into a dwelling place of God (2:22).

All six statements are true of all believers (we) in Christ. Paul sometimes expresses these statements in the first person (we, all believers, which includes you), as in verses 1:7, 1:11, and 2:21, and he sometimes expresses them in the second person (you, the believers to whom the epistle is written, who are included in we), as in verses 1:13 and 2:22, Paul using "we" (all believers) and "you" (the believers to whom the epistle is written) interchangeably in expressing what is true of all believers (we).

Thus, there is no "we" (Jewish believers) and "you" (Gentile believers). There is only "we" (all believers), in which "you" (the believers to whom the epistle is written) is included. This agrees with Paul’s teaching in Ephesians 2:14-18 that "peace" was created in Christ on the cross, the Old Covenant partition of hostility between Jew and Gentile being eliminated in Him, in whom "one new man" (we, all believers, the saints) was created. Paul’s use of pronouns agrees with this New Covenant "peace." Whereas "we the Jews and you the Gentiles" is an Old Covenant concept, "we who believe" (the saints, all believers) is a New Covenant concept. As Paul says in Ephesians 1:19, God has directed the greatness of His power toward "us who believe" (all believers, the saints, one group, not two groups).



Sincerely,

Jim