Yeshua Transfers Authority from Rabbis to Apostles

[Dave-W]

I got a link to Ron Cantor's blog on this topic today. Very interesting.

Yeshua Transfers Authority from Rabbis to Apostles - Tikkun TV

One of the responses I received, from my warning concerning the new Sanhedrin and the building of the third temple, was that we have to obey the rabbis as they have God-given authority over the Jewish people. This is not the first time I have heard this. It is based on Matthew 23. Yeshua tells the people:

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” (Matt. 23:2-3)​

Moses’ Seat
The idea is that, even in unbelief, they “sit in Moses’ seat” and therefore should be obeyed. The term “Moses’ seat” seems to indicate the place of authority that Moses held in the community. As you will recall, Moses was judge over the people. He would “sit” (hence, Moses’ seat) all day and judge disputes:

The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. (Ex. 18:13)​

 

[JazzHands]

I've always felt that the 'temple' was a organisational institutional rather than a fixed structure so I can't say that the construction of a new symbolic building presents any real significance to me. Interesting quote though, cheers for the heads up!

 

[Deborah D]

I got a link to Ron Cantor's blog on this topic today. Very interesting.

Yeshua Transfers Authority from Rabbis to Apostles - Tikkun TV

One of the responses I received, from my warning concerning the new Sanhedrin and the building of the third temple, was that we have to obey the rabbis as they have God-given authority over the Jewish people. This is not the first time I have heard this. It is based on Matthew 23. Yeshua tells the people:

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” (Matt. 23:2-3)​

Moses’ Seat
The idea is that, even in unbelief, they “sit in Moses’ seat” and therefore should be obeyed. The term “Moses’ seat” seems to indicate the place of authority that Moses held in the community. As you will recall, Moses was judge over the people. He would “sit” (hence, Moses’ seat) all day and judge disputes:

The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. (Ex. 18:13)​

This is so interesting. One thing I'd like to know is what Messianic believers understand the authority structure in the church to be (under the New Covenant). Is it based on the Bible alone? I'm not sure I'm wording this correctly.

 

[Dave-W]

One thing I'd like to know is what Messianic believers understand the authority structure in the church to be (under the New Covenant). Is it based on the Bible alone?

LOL!!!

There is an old joke about having 4 Jews in a room and there being 5 opinions. We messianics are definitely part of that.

And that is OK.

Different subgroups have very different ideas on that topic. They range from the independent groups (kind of a non-denom version of MJ) which is a free-for-all to a very structured group like Tikkun which is a neo-apostolic network of congregations. It is similar to the 1970s Christian Growth Ministries network under Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, et al.


BTW - Ron Cantor is one of the leaders in the Tikkun network, and is cousin to former Speaker of the House Eric Cantor.

 

[Lulav]

Yup, two Jews, three opinions, however from the L-RD's lips he asks:

Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Kinda agrees with this African proverb

"If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together"

 

[visionary]

It is interesting that Yeshua never gave any direct commands to the apostles in the
"judgements" of the law.

 

[Steve Petersen]

So did the Apostles transfer their authority to the Early Church Fathers, specifically, the Eastern Patriarchate and the Roman Catholic Popes?

 

[Dave-W]

So did the Apostles transfer their authority to the Early Church Fathers, specifically, the Eastern Patriarchate and the Roman Catholic Popes?

The RCC and EOC would say yes.

I am not sure Paul would agree with that:

Romans 3:1
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God

 

[Hoshiyya]

I honestly don't see the value of "lineages of authority". The apostles died and do not have any direct successors who actually keep to their teachings. The apostles certainly did not provide any leadership for non-messianic Jews either. So I think Rabbinic leadership not only has meaning but that there's a great need for it.

The Rabbis are a vital resource for Messianics without which we'd be left in an echo-chamber and reduced to being basically just sabbatarian protestants, downstream of (ie. getting our teaching and overall cultural influence from) antinomian protestants.

 

[Lulav]

It is interesting that Yeshua never gave any direct commands to the apostles in the
"judgements" of the law.

But I wouldn't hesitate to say that we don't have everything Yeshua did and said.

And that is backed up by John

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[Lulav]

The RCC and EOC would say yes.

I am not sure Paul would agree with that:

Romans 3:1
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God

So do you think he was equating circumcision with rights to handle the oracles of G-d?

 

[Dave-W]

So do you think he was equating circumcision with rights to handle the oracles of G-d?

yes.

Circumcision = Jews.

He is saying that the Jews were given the Word of God and it is theirs to interpret and spread. They are the only ones who have that right.

Look at how bad the gentiles mucked it up over the last 1900 years.

 

[CherubRam]

I got a link to Ron Cantor's blog on this topic today. Very interesting.

Yeshua Transfers Authority from Rabbis to Apostles - Tikkun TV

One of the responses I received, from my warning concerning the new Sanhedrin and the building of the third temple, was that we have to obey the rabbis as they have God-given authority over the Jewish people. This is not the first time I have heard this. It is based on Matthew 23. Yeshua tells the people:

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.” (Matt. 23:2-3)​

Moses’ Seat
The idea is that, even in unbelief, they “sit in Moses’ seat” and therefore should be obeyed. The term “Moses’ seat” seems to indicate the place of authority that Moses held in the community. As you will recall, Moses was judge over the people. He would “sit” (hence, Moses’ seat) all day and judge disputes:

The next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening. (Ex. 18:13)​

Ezekiel 34:10
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[CherubRam]

yes.

Circumcision = Jews.

He is saying that the Jews were given the Word of God and it is theirs to interpret and spread. They are the only ones who have that right.

Look at how bad the gentiles mucked it up over the last 1900 years.

True, but with the help of Pagan Jews.