Yeshua and the Torah

[WildCelt]

Wow, iktca! Thank you for that.

In our lives, even though we have been observing the Shabbat a short time (in the limited understanding we currently have on what "observing" actually is), it is something we look forward to. My wife is an independent contractor and works tons of crazy hours. When we first started observing Shabbat she commented on just how much of a relief it was to know on Friday evening you are done working for a day, and that she did not have to feel guilty about relaxing and not working.

 

[theseed]

Psalm 118

16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.
19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

 

[IKTCA]

.

 

[theseed]

This makes so much sense. It's amazing how everything in the Old Testament pointed to Christ, and in the New Testament continues to point to Christ. His burden is light.

 

[kickingsacredcows]

It may be true that the church aurthorities at the time were anti-semitic and did change the Sabboth, but I also know that Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday,

Could you provide scripture supporting your claim that Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday?

Thanks.

 

[theseed]

They took him off the cross because it was going to be the Sabbath. It's in all 4 Gospels.



Matthew 28:1
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body.


Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.


John 19:31
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

 

[theseed]

I just realized something. Yeshua went to Sheol on the Sabbath!

 

[Charlesinflorida]

I just realized something. Yeshua went to Sheol on the Sabbath!

How do you know this?

 

[theseed]

1) Jesus died the day before the Sabbath.


Matthew 28:1
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body.


Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.


John 19:31
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.


2) Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and rescued the faithful from Sheol.

"Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:”(Apostles Creed)
· Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53.4-6).

· A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12.39-40).

· I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. (Revelation 1.18; John 18.28-42).

 

[Charlesinflorida]

2) Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and rescued the faithful from Sheol.

"Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:”(Apostles Creed)
· Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53.4-6).

· A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12.39-40).

· I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. (Revelation 1.18; John 18.28-42).

It looks like the only thing that says he descended into Hell was the apostles creed. I mean we all know that he died and remained in the tomb until the third day when he rose. But where does this "descending into hell" come from?

CIF

 

[Henaynei]

There were 2 sabbaths that week - Passover is a sabbath (a Wednesday that year), and Shabbat is a sabbath.....
Yeshua was in the earth "three days and three nights" - so.....
Yeshua died on the day of preparation as the lambs were being slaughtered for the Passover
He was buried just before sunset on Wednesday, when Passover was celebrated
Wednesday sundown to Thursday sundown - #1 Passover day
Thursday sundown to Friday sundown - #2
Friday sundown to Saturday sundown - #3
Yeshua rose anytime after sundown Saturday, on the first day of the week, HaBikkurim/First Fruits That year,
Keep in mind that the Jewish day starts and ends at sundown.

 

[theseed]

It looks like the only thing that says he descended into Hell was the apostles creed. I mean we all know that he died and remained in the tomb until the third day when he rose. But where does this "descending into hell" come from?

CIF

hell is sheol, and I cited the scriptures that support the Apostles Creed, even Henaynei agrees that he went into Sheol, or in the Greek, Hades. Read the verses I posted and you would understand, it seems that you just glanced over it and posted.

 

[theseed]

There were 2 sabbaths that week - Passover is a sabbath (a Wednesday that year), and Shabbat is a sabbath.....
Yeshua was in the earth "three days and three nights" - so.....
Yeshua died on the day of preparation as the lambs were being slaughtered for the Passover
He was buried just before sunset on Wednesday, when Passover was celebrated
Wednesday sundown to Thursday sundown - #1 Passover day
Thursday sundown to Friday sundown - #2
Friday sundown to Saturday sundown - #3
Yeshua rose anytime after sundown Saturday, on the first day of the week, HaBikkurim/First Fruits That year,
Keep in mind that the Jewish day starts and ends at sundown.

Please elaborate how you know it was the Passover Sabbath and not Shabbat, and how you know that it was a wednesday that year.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

hell is sheol, and I cited the scriptures that support the Apostles Creed, even Henaynei agrees that he went into Sheol, or in the Greek, Hades. Read the verses I posted and you would understand, it seems that you just glanced over it and posted.

Sorry, but I am not seeing it.
Did you mean this line of your post: 2) Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and rescued the faithful from Sheol.

If so where does that come from there is no book or chapter reference.

 

[theseed]

CIF, I thought you being an MJ, would know these things. Sheol was divided into 2 parts and each part was seperated by a great chasm, on part was "Abraham's bossom, and the other was the "hell" or suffering part. When Christ died, he went into the heart of the earth, the pit, the grave, sheol and gathered those in Abraham's bossom, and opened took the keys of hell and death from HaSatan (is not this a borrowed word?)

10) Yeshua promised the thief on the cross, “This day you shall be with me in paradise.” He did not say “Heaven”, the abode of G-d, because the souls of the righteous dead did not go to heaven at that time. According to Lukas/Luke 16:22-26, the souls of the dead went down into the heart of the earth where two compartments, separated by a great rift, held the souls of the righteous and the unrighteous. (The righteous believed in the atoning blood of animals, which merely pointed to the Blood of Messiah. The full meaning of the sacrifice had to be shown to them, so that they might place their faith in the blood of Messiah.) The souls of the unrighteous are in torment, awaiting the final judgement and the lake of fire. The righteous enjoy a paradise known as “Abraham’s bosom”. Both the righteous and unrighteous can see each other across the void, but cannot pass from one compartment to the other.

 

[theseed]

Henaynei,
Timeline
Wednesday - Plot to kill Jesus (Mt. 26.1-16; Mk 14.1-11)

Thursday - Day of Preparation (Mt. 26.17-75; Mk 14.12-72; Lk 22.7-65; Jn 13.1-18.27)

Friday - Day of Passover (Mt. 27.1-67; Mk 15.1-47; Lk 22.66-23.56; John 18.28-19.42)

Saturday - Guard placed at tomb (Mt. 27.62-66), "They rested on the Sabbath (Lk 22.56)

Sunday - Ressurection (Mt. 28.1-15; Mk 16.1-8; Lk 24.1-49; John 20.1-3)


Key verse


John 19


Care of the Body of Jesus

31 Then the Jews, because it was (1) the day of preparation, so that (2) the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a (3) high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


Show cross-references

1. John 19:14, 42
2. Deut 21:23; Josh 8:29; 10:26f
3. Ex 12:16

I submit to you that the Day of Passover was on the Shabbat, and that "Day of Preparation" actually refers to the Shabbat, preparing for the Shabbat.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

CIF, I thought you being an MJ, would know these things. Sheol was divided into 2 parts and each part was seperated by a great chasm, on part was "Abraham's bossom, and the other was the "hell" or suffering part. When Christ died, he went into the heart of the earth, the pit, the grave, sheol and gathered those in Abraham's bossom, and opened took the keys of hell and death from HaSatan (is not this a borrowed word?)

Thanks or the info. Tecnically Paradise is Gan-Eden, (Garden of Eden) However once again it is from bible commentary. I was hoping to see something more specific. I know Yeshua told the one malifactor that "Today you will be with me in Paradise." But the doctrine of Paradise/ Gehenon, is not well defined in scripture. I am not sure but I believe this to be of Kabbalah origins. But is was well known in the second temple period. as seen in this quote from Talmud,

R. Jeremiah b. Eleazar further stated: Come and see that human2 relationship is not like that with the Holy One, blessed be He. In human2 relationship when a man is sentenced to death for [an offence against] a government, a hook must be placed in his mouth in order that he shall not [be able to] curse the king, but in the relationship with the Holy One, blessed be He, when a man incurs [the penalty of] death for [an offence against] the Omnipresent he keeps silence, as it is said: Towards Thee silence3 is praise;4 and he, furthermore, offers praise, for it is stated: ‘praise’; and not only that but he also regards it5 as if he offered a sacrifice, for it is said6 in Scripture: And unto Thee the vow is performed.7 This8 is exactly in line with what R. Joshua b. Levi has said: What [is the meaning of] what is written: Passing through the valley of Baca they make it a place of springs; yea, the early rain clotheth it with blessings,9 ‘passing’ is an allusion to10 men who transgress11 the will of the Holy One, blessed be He; ‘valley’ [is an allusion to these men] for whom Gehenna is made deep;12 ‘of Baca’ [signifies] that they weep and shed tears;13 ‘they make it a place of springs’,14 like the constant flow15 of the altar drains;16 ‘Yea, the early rain clotheth it with blessings’, they acknowledge the justice17 of their punishment and declare before Him, ‘Lord of the universe,18 Thou hast judged well, Thou hast condemned well, and well provided Gehenna for the wicked and Paradise for the righteous’.