YES or NO: Is It Fair That Some People Are Going To Hell? (2)

[Tissue]

I have never suggested we must doubt God.

 

[Tissue]

To every believer in Jesus Christ, the sole authority is the written word of God. Otherwise we just whistle in the wind. I'm not up for that sort of waste of time, thanks.

What God says is FINAL. PERIOD. Debating Him is idiocy.

Entirely untrue. Scripture alone can not help anyone. After all, how could one read Scripture without a rational mind that understands the language in which it is written? So, logic is needed. And, what good is a mind with logic in it if it does not have experience of the world around it, to ground the truths it is presented? So, experience is needed. Finally, how can one maintain communion with the whole of Christianity if past understanding of the Scripture is not at least acknowledged? So, tradition is helpful.

And thus, the Wesleyan quadrilateral: Scripture, reason, experience, and tradition.

You really need to be careful when you make claims like "All Christians believe |fill-in-the-blank|".

 

[Floatingaxe]

Entirely untrue. Scripture alone can not help anyone. After all, how could one read Scripture without a rational mind that understands the language in which it is written? So, logic is needed. And, what good is a mind with logic in it if it does not have experience of the world around it, to ground the truths it is presented? So, experience is needed. Finally, how can one maintain communion with the whole of Christianity if past understanding of the Scripture is not at least acknowledged? So, tradition is helpful.

And thus, the Wesleyan quadrilateral: Scripture, reason, experience, and tradition.

You really need to be careful when you make claims like "All Christians believe |fill-in-the-blank|".

No it is true. Entirely.

Scripture is alive and has the power of God in it.

A simpleton can receive the truth of God by reading it. An illiterate can know all truth just by hearing it. A child can know God intimately by reading it and hearing it. Even a mentally challenged person can know the God of the universe by knowing what the Word of God says! Hey, even a comatose patient on his deathbed can hear the Word and believe!

Don't place too much importance on intellectual capability. It borders on pride and even idolatry.

Tradition has n0o bearing on one's individual walk with Jesus Christ.

As far as "all Christians"...we are unified, one Body. We believe the same things. If one finds himself out of synch with their step, then that one is in error and needs to sharpen his knowledge of God through His word and prayer and get some good honest-to-goodness teaching from leaders who are Spirit-filled. Get pastored, shepherded!

Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.

 

[Armistead]

Entirely untrue. Scripture alone can not help anyone. After all, how could one read Scripture without a rational mind that understands the language in which it is written? So, logic is needed. And, what good is a mind with logic in it if it does not have experience of the world around it, to ground the truths it is presented? So, experience is needed. Finally, how can one maintain communion with the whole of Christianity if past understanding of the Scripture is not at least acknowledged? So, tradition is helpful.

And thus, the Wesleyan quadrilateral: Scripture, reason, experience, and tradition.

You really need to be careful when you make claims like "All Christians believe |fill-in-the-blank|".

I wonder how many years man operated without scripture....? Any Idea?
I guess he was totally lost until he had a bible....

 

[kiwimac]

This is my take on the Bible.

From the revelations of the Spirit of God to the faithful have come the scriptures of Truth, which contain: (1) a faithful historical account of the behavior of God's people in various ages and of the many unusual and remarkable acts of God which they experienced, (2) a prophetic account of some things already past, and of others yet to come, (3) a full and adequate account of all of the chief principles of the doctrine of Christ which were spoken, or which were written, by the motions of God's Spirit at various times in treasured declarations, exhortations, and maxims which were given to certain churches and their pastors.

Nevertheless, because the scriptures are only a declaration of the source, and not the source itself, they are not to be considered the principal foundation of all truth and knowledge. They are not even to be considered as the adequate primary rule of all faith and practice. Yet, because they give a true and faithful testimony of the source itself, they are and may be regarded as a secondary rule that is subordinate to the Spirit, from which they obtain all their excellence and certainty.

We truly know them only by the inward testimony of the Spirit or, as the scriptures themselves say, the Spirit is the guide by which the faithful are led into all Truth (John 16:13). Therefore, according to the scriptures, the Spirit is the first and principal leader (Rom 8:14). Because we are receptive to the scriptures, as the product of the Spirit, it is for that very reason that the Spirit is the primary and principal rule of faith.

http://www.quakerinfo.com/quak_bib.shtml

 

[Floatingaxe]

That's BUNK.

To devalue the scriptures is to devalue God. Here He has painstakingly preserved the Words He has breathed on His chosen writers and now in this perverse generation we see people minimizing it and scorning it. What a blasphemic mindset!

The Spirit of God Himself moves men's hearts and changes them forever by the simple hearing or reading of its truths!

 

[kiwimac]

You're opinion is duly noted. However perhaps you might like to comment on Christ saying that it was the SPIRIT of God that would lead us into all truth not the scriptures or is that bunk too?

 

[Floatingaxe]

You're opinion is duly noted. However perhaps you might like to comment on Christ saying that it was the SPIRIT of God that would lead us into all truth not the scriptures or is that bunk too?

The Spirit of God leads us into all truth and the truth is in the Bible, kiwi!


You must certainly remember that?

 

[god's_pawn]

In a Christian forum, YES they do.

The Bible is not the only truth in the world, therefore, no they don't

Evidence and Scripture, which is THE authority around here, has been given, ad nauseam. Nothing has been unfair here regarding the discussion.

perhaps unfair was the wrong word, though i'm not quite sure what the correct word would be. either way, something was definitely wrong (i'm sorry that you and Zaak were the one's at fault) and i wanted to make things right. also, just because you have given evidence (which i have no doubt was sufficiently responded to be Tissue) doesn't mean that you are excused from giving more evidence. attacking a person is not evidence for anything. Tissue was still debating the issue, obviously you were losing and so descended into using cheap personal assaults to try and protect you pride. i'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but i think your failure to show Christian love in your posting deserves it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The Bible is not the only truth in the world, therefore, no they don't

The only real truth can be found in the written Word of God. Whether read or heard. That is how we know it.

John 17:17
Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth.



If you are going to make anti-Christian claims and declare them Christian, you must give us Scriptural proof.

perhaps unfair was the wrong word, though i'm not quite sure what the correct word would be. either way, something was definitely wrong (i'm sorry that you and Zaak were the one's at fault) and i wanted to make things right. also, just because you have given evidence (which i have no doubt was sufficiently responded to be Tissue) doesn't mean that you are excused from giving more evidence. attacking a person is not evidence for anything. Tissue was still debating the issue, obviously you were losing and so descended into using cheap personal assaults to try and protect you pride. i'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but i think your failure to show Christian love in your posting deserves it.

Unfair is the word. I was attacked as well, if you want to be fair about it. Can I have your shoulder to cry on, too?

We weren't losing!! LOL! I think that Christian charity ended with Tissues premise. Bringing an opinion of disunity and when corrected, digging in and defending it is unloving, and unteachable.

Good potential Christian leaders need to be at least teachable.

 

[god's_pawn]

The only real truth can be found in the written Word of God. Whether read or heard. That is how we know it.

John 17:17
Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth.

right. so 2+2=4 is not real truth....

If you are going to make anti-Christian claims and declare them Christian, you must give us Scriptural proof.

How was that an anti-Christian claim?

Unfair is the word. I was attacked as well, if you want to be fair about it. Can I have your shoulder to cry on, too?

I think Tissue is smart enough not to make such a mistake but then i suppose i don't know that. the fact that you were attacked is no excuse to do the same. does "turn the other cheek" ring a bell?

We weren't losing!! LOL! I think that Christian charity ended with Tissues premise. Bringing an opinion of disunity and when corrected, digging in and defending it is unloving, and unteachable.

Good potential Christian leaders need to be at least teachable.

I never said you were, i said that if i had to choose someone as the winner, Tissue would be it since he was actually arguing, not committing falacies. a differing opinion does not have to sow disunity. Tissue's premise could be correct, i have not yet seen conclusive evidence to the contrary. if you're going to get so worked up over some because he or she has a different opinion on something than you, then i suggest you stop getting involved in these discussions. if you must continue, please understand that 1: you could be wrong (as could any other person on these board, myself included), 2: these discussions are not of eternal/salvation determining value, and 3: all posting should be done in Christian love and humility.

 

[Armistead]

The Bible is not the only truth in the world, therefore, no they don't




perhaps unfair was the wrong word, though i'm not quite sure what the correct word would be. either way, something was definitely wrong (i'm sorry that you and Zaak were the one's at fault) and i wanted to make things right. also, just because you have given evidence (which i have no doubt was sufficiently responded to be Tissue) doesn't mean that you are excused from giving more evidence. attacking a person is not evidence for anything. Tissue was still debating the issue, obviously you were losing and so descended into using cheap personal assaults to try and protect you pride. i'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but i think your failure to show Christian love in your posting deserves it.

Hang around...you're still learning. Several here can't debate, so they go into rants, sarcasm and attacks. Then they pat each other on the back for winning, when they don't realize their are no victors when people have different opinions, because in the end that is the only absolute, people differ. Most of us have enough esteem we don't have to play this game and just like reasonable debate.

 

[Floatingaxe]

right. so 2+2=4 is not real truth....

It won't save your soul. The One who makes 2+2=4 will.

 

[god's_pawn]

It won't save your soul. The One who makes 2+2=4 will.

truth is not defined by whether or not it will save my soul

 

[Floatingaxe]

right. so 2+2=4 is not real truth....
I never said you were, i said that if i had to choose someone as the winner, Tissue would be it since he was actually arguing, not committing falacies. a differing opinion does not have to sow disunity. Tissue's premise could be correct, i have not yet seen conclusive evidence to the contrary. if you're going to get so worked up over some because he or she has a different opinion on something than you, then i suggest you stop getting involved in these discussions. if you must continue, please understand that 1: you could be wrong (as could any other person on these board, myself included), 2: these discussions are not of eternal/salvation determining value, and 3: all posting should be done in Christian love and humility.

Anti-Biblical opinions get me worked up. Christians are supposed to be spreading truth, not unbiblical opinions. It defeats the reason we are here--to preach the truth always, in order to bring the lost to Christ.

So, no, the winner is not Tissue, by any stretch of anyone's imagination. An unsaved lurker could be led astray by his posts. in this thread.

 

[Floatingaxe]

truth is not defined by whether or not it will save my soul

In this thread it is.

Do you know Jesus as your personal Saviour and Lord?

What do you think? Is it fair that some people are going to go to hell?

 

[god's_pawn]

In this thread it is.

as said by who?

Do you know Jesus as your personal Saviour and Lord?

yes

What do you think? Is it fair that some people are going to go to hell?

yes. i believe that they are going to hell based on their own choices.

 

[Nadiine]

Prove it with 100% certainty.

After all if it's so easy to prove it won't be a problem will it.

And I'll assume anyone making a joke of it is unable to prove it, and therefore has doubt.

HOW DOES ONE DOUBT A GOD WHOM THEY HAVE A
CLOSE INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH WHO MAKES HIMSELF
KNOWN TO THEM?

If you doubt God can exist to any degree, then how do you
KNOW HIM intimately?
Or do you rather claim that you don't know He exists becuz
He hasn't made Himself known to you inwardly?

A CHRISTIAN SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY DOUBT ABOUT GOD EXISTING
if they actually KNOW Him. How do you KNOW & love someone
you can doubt exists?

(ps this is supposed to be a Christian section,
not atheistic where we have to PROVE God to the skeptics)

 

[JoabAnias]

Closed pending staff review.