YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

PROPHECYKID said:

I thought Jesus came so that his blood can atone for our sins and through his sacrifice we can be saved. I didn;t know he came so that we can break all of his law. So then i can steal, kill and lie since Jesus died on the cross. How nice. My carnal nature would really enjoy that.

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Nice,,

That was a mature response now, wasn't it? I suppose then you still need a law to keep you in check, as we can see. How many times does Jesus need to save you? It took once for me. One Sacrifice, one atonement. To rinse and repeat past mistakes, willingly, would nullify the cross, and enslave you all over again.

Why don't you let Jesus be your King, and not just the Priest.

Tkjjc said:

Nice,,

That was a mature response now, wasn't it? I suppose then you still need a law to keep you in check, as we can see. How many times does Jesus need to save you? It took once for me. One Sacrifice, one atonement. To rinse and repeat past mistakes, willingly, would nullify the cross, and enslave you all over again.

Why don't you let Jesus be your King, and not just the Priest.

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Repeating past mistakes is something that we all do but God has made provision for that. Because we may be under the blood it does not mean that we are immune to sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

PROPHECYKID said:

I thought Jesus came so that his blood can atone for our sins and through his sacrifice we can be saved. I didn;t know he came so that we can break all of his law. So then i can steal, kill and lie since Jesus died on the cross. How nice. My carnal nature would really enjoy that.

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Even the apostle Paul wrestled with the inherant carnal nature:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%207:14-25;&version=51;

How many times would you have Christ die for you to cleanse you of sin? To make you rightious in Gods eyes? Every time you sinned? 24/7 365 times every year? He said on the cross at Calvary "IT IS FINISHED" The greatest words ever utterd.

Think about it.

JustAsIam77 said:

Even the apostle Paul wrestled with the inherant carnal nature:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%207:14-25;&version=51;

How many times would you have Christ die for you to cleanse you of sin? To make you rightious in Gods eyes? Every time you sinned? 24/7 365 times every year? He said on the cross at Calvary "IT IS FINISHED" The greatest words ever utterd.

Think about it.

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Jesus died once for the sins of many. But forgiveness and cleasing from unrighteousness only comes when one confesses.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jesus does not want us to sin but if we do his blood will atone for us once we confess. That does not mean that we have a license to sin. Jesus died on the cross and we can have grace but as Paul said, does that mean that we should sin? God forbid. Grace is not an excuse to sin it is a remedy for sin.

PROPHECYKID said:

Jesus died once for the sins of many. But forgiveness and cleasing from unrighteousness only comes when one confesses.

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The essence of what you are saying from any logical perspective is that Christ's death is basically worthless unless "you" activate Christ's death via confession. Paul reminds us this:

"while we were yet enemies, Christ died for "US."

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jesus does not want us to sin

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Take a close look at 1 John 3:6 and tell me if "you and only you" are the "sinner" if you know God...?

Jesus wants you to understand that YOU as Gods child are NOT THE SAME as the sin indwelling your flesh.

That is the only way you can "sin not." You must understand that the sin indwelling you is NOT YOU and NOT your fellow man...

You should not be a SLAVE of SIN...you are NOT a slave of "yourself." A ridiculous notion. The position and presentation of "slaveship" requires a "slavemaster."

but if we do his blood will atone for us once we confess.

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If you "were" a blindman do you think your failure to "see" would NEGATE the work of Christ? lol

That does not mean that we have a license to sin.

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Look, bottom line on this matter of sin is that SIN, it's WORKS and WORKERS remain utterly condemned under both the LAW and under LOVE. There is not now nor will there EVER be forgiveness for sins for the workers of iniquity. They will be utterly destroyed in the Lake of Fire.

What you and most will perhaps NEVER get in this present life is the fact that Paul described the sin that indwelt his flesh as NO LONGER I...

John the Apostle said that he who commits sin is OF THE DEVIL.

Now, do the math...who are the OTHER PARTIES to the FLESH that Jesus showed you in the Gospels about multiple thousands of times...even a LEGION in a single individual????

Can you SEE that YOU are not alone in the flesh?

You see all this time you thought it was JUST YOU...

you never realized that in your flesh you have a NO LONGER I, and EVIL PRESENT with you "whenever" you desire to DO GOOD....

When you DIVIDE yourself as Gods offspring from THAT WORKING...the scriptures become your absolute ALLY...and His Word becomes their absolute TERROR...

Jesus died on the cross and we can have grace but as Paul said, does that mean that we should sin? God forbid. Grace is not an excuse to sin it is a remedy for sin.

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You have a very long and narrow road ahead of you to see that you have determined nearly ALL of your fellow man to burn alive forever (or just insert your favorite form of condemning, accusing and blaming our fellow man,) thereby finding that BROAD PATH that "leads" to destruction.

enjoy!

squint

PROPHECYKID said:

Jesus does not want us to sin but if we do his blood will atone for us once we confess. That does not mean that we have a license to sin.

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Why all these endless warnings against using grace as a "license to sin"? Why is it that every single believer who insist that we are to live according to the law assumes that if people don't, they will go out and sin as much as possible? I can only think of one reason - that this is what they would do if they believed they weren't under the law. As for me, and for everybody I know that believe we are under 100% grace and 0% law, warning them not to abuse God's grace is just absurd. It's like tapping Christ on the shoulder and say "now Lord, don't forget to be kind to people!"

In other words, speak for yourself. Perhaps you are so wicked that you're just dying for an "excuse" to sin, but that's hardly the norm for born again people who know who they are.

PROPHECYKID said:

Repeating past mistakes is something that we all do but God has made provision for that. Because we may be under the blood it does not mean that we are immune to sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

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Keep reading that same book, 1st John, there PK. You are not a baby Christian learning about what Jesus did for you. You KNOW what He did for you. Past that point and on to chapters 2 and 3.

You really need to come to a reconciliation of the whole book, just as some need to do with Romans.

1st John 3
1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So I say this again, and I am understanding what Squint is also saying. You have been forgiven, past, present and future. Jesus TOOK AWAY that sin. Does this mean you can now do what you want, and willing commit sins, under the Law? That would mean you don't KNOW HIM. For IF you KNEW Him, you would not willingly do those things which you KNOW He doesn't like. Is it a fight? Hell yes, it is. A non stop continuous fight. But, God knows YOUR HEART. He know that you are trying to PLEASE Him, and do those things that are right in His sight. Since Jesus TOOK AWAY those sins, it also must mean, by the same stance, that the Law was TAKEN with Him. It was fulfilled. Why then would you now want to go back to that rule? That earthly rule?

This is the struggle and war of the powers that rule, on earth. We live in the flesh, in a fallen domain, ruled by that which shall be destroyed. But for you, it has been already. You ARE FORGIVEN! This is why our walk must and has to be Spiritual in nature, reconciling the flesh with the spirit, with His Spirit. Purifying oneself. Capturing those thoughts, those evil thoughts. Capturing the tongue, so that our words lift up and show our love, not destroy morals, and bring people down. To live for Christ, means to die to your nature. That fallen nature. Otherwise, how does a child grow up? Otherwise, what exactly does it mean to be forgiven TOTALLY?

The OT Jews had the Law to point to Christ. They needed it, to live righteously. When Jesus was raised, He took those Jews with Him, and raised them up. They are judged according to the Law. Moses is the accuser. Jesus is the advocate. God the Father , the Judge.

You don't have the Law to point to Christ. You HAVE Christ, living in you, in your heart. ALL of your sins WERE, ARE, and FOREVER ARE forgiven. This in itself would negate the Law. The is no criminal Law, for you. How could there be? With no punishment, how could there be a crime? With no crime, how could there be a Law, any Law? Does this mean as a Christian, you can now do ANYTHING your carnal heart desires? NO! Otherwise you would then negate the cross, since evidently your heart wasn't sincere to start with. This would prove to be unprofitable, in this life, and the next. God judges our hearts, and our deeds and actions and thoughts will be exposed. Could you face Him that day, and knowingly and willingly have spit on the cross your whole life, after receiving the greatest gift IN THE UNIVERSE? Wow, I couldn't.

This is why I live according to Love. I try and show as much as I can, and to live a life that Christ wants me to live. Carnal battles still take place, as no one is perfect. We stumble, but yet we have been forever forgiven. Our hearts are being purified, and our thoughts become easier to capture, so the struggles become easier and easier. This happens when Christians mature in their walks. I can always tell a mature Christian verses a baby Christian. Just their actions, and words are completely different.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The strength of sin is the law. Breaking the law is sin. Sin doesn't come from keeping the law but from breaking it. Sin is the strength of the law by lawlessness and not law keeping.
Sin shall not have dominion under us because we are not under the law but under grace. The law can only condemn us when we brake it. When we brake the law we are under the condemnation of the law. The law will condemn us as sinners when we brake it. That is why God 's grace is need. When we have grace we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. Remember that grace is unmerited favour. We are all sinners and we don't deserve to live but through grace we are saved. We are free from the condemnation of the law. Under the condemnation of the law there is death but under grace there is life eternal.

The problem is the confusion with the meaning of being under the law in that context. If Paul is saying that we are not subject to the law then Romans 8: 6,7 would be a direct contradiction of himself. We are saved by grace and not by keeping the commandments because they were never intended to save but to give the knowledge of sin. (Rom 3:20). If we are not to keep any law then the saint sin Revelation 14:12 do not understand that and neither does the remnant in Revelation 12:17. Neither does James or Paul understand it in when he wrote James 2. Looking at the bible as a whole will not cause you to arrive at the conclusion that we should not keep the commandments. God's will is for us to keep his commandments but when we fall short his grace saves us from being under it's condemnation which would have caused us to face death

Jesus did die for our sins past, present and future. I don't believe however that means that we are automatically forgiven when we sin. I said this before and i will say it again. When God's spirit dwells within us we cannot sin. When temptation comes through the devil and we yield to the devil's temptation he causes us to sin. When we are in our practice of sin God's spirit cannot be dwelling in us for his spirit cannot dwell in sin. God's spirit cannot be in me when i am stealing from my brother regardless of my past relationship with God. God's spirit cannot dwell in me when i committing adultery. It's easy to understand. You are either controlled by God or Satan. If you are controlled by God you will not sin but the devil can tempt you. If you yield to the devil you will sin but the holy spirit will be speaking to you so that you could give God the control again.

PROPHECYKID said:

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The strength of sin is the law. Breaking the law is sin. Sin doesn't come from keeping the law but from breaking it. Sin is the strength of the law by lawlessness and not law keeping.
Sin shall not have dominion under us because we are not under the law but under grace. The law can only condemn us when we brake it. When we brake the law we are under the condemnation of the law. The law will condemn us as sinners when we brake it. That is why God 's grace is need.

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Nobody has ever been under the law withoug breaking it. Everyone who is under the law is under a curse. There's no way around it. Or actually, the only way around it is to DIE.

If you, like most christians seem to do, reduce it all to be about breaking or keeping the law, then yes, that's why we need mercy. But grace is more than mercy. Adam and Eve weren't under the law and couldn't sin, but they still needed grace. They slept, ate, breathed, made love, lived - in grace.

When the commandment came, however, sin sprang to life and they died, and we have all inherited that death. They made a choice to know good from evil, they made a choice to live according to the law. Later, Israel made that same mistake, saying to God "give us your commandments and we shall do them!" - the forbidden fruit still looks tempting. And it is still the way in for the serpent.

But you are free NOT to make the same mistake as Adam and Eve did. You have died with Christ, you have gotten a new start, He is the "second Adam" and you can decide not to take of that forbidden fruit. Yes, it looks tempting, yes it looks good, and the commandment IS good - but it turns out to bring death, it is the power of sin.

So you can choose. You can walk in faith, with your eyes fixed on Christ, like Peter when he walked on the water, or you can fix your eyes on the law and see your nakedness and live in shame. Trust in Christ. Be smarter than Adam and Eve and all the religious people in the world. Trust in Him to keep you and guide you, live in His perfect freedom, don't take another fruit from the forbidden tree. Eat from the Tree of Life instead. Christ is in you. Believe it, act like it, trust in it. Allow Him to motivate your entire being, instead of subjecting yourself to the law as if you were a criminal, as if Jesus Himself needed to be curbed by the law.

"I'm still a sinner," you might say. Well, Peter could've said "I'm still subject to gravity," too, but he didn't. He just looked at Jesus. Because no matter how true it is that you fail, no matter how true it is that you are human, no matter how true the law of gravity is - these are all lies compared to Jesus Christ. Because He IS the truth.

PROPHECYKID said:

If you yield to the devil you will sin but the holy spirit will be speaking to you so that you could give God the control again.

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Yes, but so many people make the sordid mistake of assuming that "giving God the control" actually means "managing to keep the law" - not that you could manage to keep the law anyway, but if you did then it certainly wouldn't be GOD in control, but YOU. If YOU could keep the law, then you would indeed have something to boast about, salvation would indeed be by works, and Jesus would indeed be of no effect.

Trying to keep the law is actually the opposite of taking up your cross and dying to yourself. You're to die, not only to yourself, but to the law, to the world, to sin, the whole thing. Dead people don't struggle. Crucified people don't try to keep the law. If you're trying to keep the law, that's a pretty sure sign that you're not dead at all, but very much alive...

Adam and Eve weren't under the law and couldn't sin

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If sin is disobedience to God then when God told them not to eat of the forbidden fruit then that command gave them the chance to sin. Had God not given them any instruction they could not sin.

They made a choice to know good from evil, they made a choice to live according to the law. Later

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If they lived according to the one command that God gave them then sin would not enter the world. Adam and Even knew that they should not disobey God. Because they did they were told that they would surely die. If they abided by God's command they would live forever. The wages of sin is death. If you were in the garden would you tell Adam and Eve not to keep God's command? Would you have told Adam and Eve that they should not abide by that law? It was through disobedience to God that sin entered the world and it is through disobedience to God that some will have their part in the lake of fire.

If God is in control of you then why should you break the law. When God is in you his power gives you the victory over all sin. God in us means no sin. I can't steal when God has control over me. When God directs my paths i cannot do what i want but what he wants. When God is in control we are dead to sin because God's spirit will not have us sin. It is only when we take our eyes off Jesus like Peter did we fall into sin. Look at it this way.

We keep our eyes on Jesus and we live above sin like Peter walked above the water. When we take our eyes off we start to sink into sin like Peter when he took his eyes off. At that point we are controlled by the waves of sin but when we look again to Jesus his hand of Grace pulls us out of the waves of sin so that we can walk above sin again.

PROPHECYKID said:

If sin is disobedience to God then when God told them not to eat of the forbidden fruit then that command gave them the chance to sin. Had God not given them any instruction they could not sin.

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Exactly

PROPHECYKID said:

If they lived according to the one command that God gave them then sin would not enter the world. Adam and Even knew that they should not disobey God. Because they did they were told that they would surely die. If they abided by God's command they would live forever. The wages of sin is death. If you were in the garden would you tell Adam and Eve not to keep God's command? Would you have told Adam and Eve that they should not abide by that law? It was through disobedience to God that sin entered the world and it is through disobedience to God that some will have their part in the lake of fire.

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The point is that the only prohibiton was against even knowing good and evil, in other words: law. They were, in effect, commanded not to live according to the law, they were commanded not to even have that knowledge in the first place.

Now that you are a heir to the Second Adam, Christ, you don't have to make that same mistake. You don't have to live based on the knowing good and evil, but simply based on knowing the Lord.

PROPHECYKID said:

If God is in control of you then why should you break the law.

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But don't you see that without the law, it is pointless to even talk about keeping or breaking it. I'm kind to people, but not because I keep the law. The law has nothing to do with it, my goodness is simply Christ in me expressing Himself. It makes no sense to say that Christ in me is "keeping the law," He's just being Himself. It transcends the whole concept of a law. The law isn't for the righteous anyway, but for the wicked and ungodly.

PROPHECYKID said:

When God is in control we are dead to sin because God's spirit will not have us sin. It is only when we take our eyes off Jesus like Peter did we fall into sin. Look at it this way.

We keep our eyes on Jesus and we live above sin like Peter walked above the water. When we take our eyes off we start to sink into sin like Peter when he took his eyes off. At that point we are controlled by the waves of sin but when we look again to Jesus his hand of Grace pulls us out of the waves of sin so that we can walk above sin again.

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Yes, exactly!

Peter didn't accomplish walking on the water. He didn't defy gravity. He simply looked at Jesus. Here's the deal: you can't look at Jesus and at the law at the same time. Jesus is Life, the law is the ministry of death, or gravity if you will.

PROPHECYKID said:

If sin is disobedience to God then when God told them not to eat of the forbidden fruit then that command gave them the chance to sin. Had God not given them any instruction they could not sin.

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Why do you over and over and over again continue to make Adam the same as the "sin that entered" Adam?

Don't you realize yet that the Law is made to show us that we as Gods children are not the same as the SIN INDWELLING our flesh and minds, which SIN abounds by THE LAW that is made to SEPARATE us from it's workings, yet AROUSES IT?

This is the most simple of understandings about THE LAW...yet it will continue to escape your eyes because it is also IN YOUR FLESH AND MIND...

It is quite possible to SERVE THE LAW in your MIND, but in your flesh, SIN will continue to show both IT'S presence and it's POWER...proving IT IS THERE.

Only a hypocrite will double deal on the Law, claiming adherance out of one side of their mouth and PROVING sin indwells them out of the other side, yet not SEPARATING from it's workings.

If they lived according to the one command that God gave them then sin would not enter the world.

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You still falsely portray that it is the disobedience of ADAM and EVE but the fact is it is the DISOBEDIENCE of SIN that was NOT THEM that is LAWLESS...

Adam was Gods son...(Luke 3:38)

Adam therefore was SPOTLESS spiritually speaking but BOUND to sin that was NOT HIM....

Any person who does not SEE this difference between themselves and the LAWLESSNESS that is in the flesh that is NOT THEM...remains a captive of SIN...

They only think IT'S THEM...when in fact IT'S NOT.

Adam and Even knew that they should not disobey God. Because they did they were told that they would surely die. If they abided by God's command they would live forever.

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Having a DEATH SENTENCE hanging over your head for ETERNITY under "performance" is quite contrary to having "eternal freedom."

Adam and Eve's freedom was FREELY BUT...with a very big BUT OF DEATH attached to it...

The Law came with a DEATH SENTENCE, not FREEDOM for eternity.

The wages of sin is death. If you were in the garden would you tell Adam and Eve not to keep God's command?

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What you will continue to utterly FAIL to understand is that the flesh and minds of Adam and Eve were made "subject to" the workings of deception which workings were AROUSED and EMPOWERED by the Law.

What you also will continue to utterly FAIL to understand was that the SIN THAT ENTERED the flesh and minds of Adam and Eve were NOT THEM, but of the SERPENT, the DEVIL in their flesh and minds...

And you continue to SHOW THAT WORKING by "counting sins" against Adam and Eve and overlooking entirely the workings of the OTHER PARTY in their flesh and minds....that is in fact a working of the devil in the flesh that is still rampant today.

Here is the most simplistic of principles, yet you do not, nor CAN YOU see it:

When you put THE LAWLESS under the LAW, the lawlessness is aroused, empowered, and abounding. That working in the flesh can DO NO DIFFERENT...and when you PUT THE LAWLESSNESS under the LAW it simply proves IT IS THERE, with you.

You still think it's ONLY YOU, or more accurately, only your lawless fellow man.

Would you have told Adam and Eve that they should not abide by that law? It was through disobedience to God that sin entered the world and it is through disobedience to God that some will have their part in the lake of fire.

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Measuring "eternal death" to your fellow man is the absolute most great hatred that is available on the planet, and THE DEVIL has worked that working in the flesh...

You cannot get any further AWAY from the Law of Life than that...and that is the showing of LAWLESSNESS to the GREATEST DEGREE available.

enjoy!

squint

holo said:

Exactly

The point is that the only prohibiton was against even knowing good and evil, in other words: law. They were, in effect, commanded not to live according to the law, they were commanded not to even have that knowledge in the first place.

Now that you are a heir to the Second Adam, Christ, you don't have to make that same mistake. You don't have to live based on the knowing good and evil, but simply based on knowing the Lord.

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Lets look at the scripture which talks about the first Adam and the Second Adam. By the way the context in actually about the resurrection.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

In the present Paul says that we are after the second Adam. We are flesh and blood after the first Adam but we will be changed because:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Paul is saying that we are going to be after the likeness of the second Adam when we are resurrected and changed.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offense, so also is the free gift. For if through the offense of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

What i am getting from these passages are:

1. Because of Adam's sin we are all supposed to die but God's grace will save us from the penalty of death
2. By the power of Jesus we will all be resurrected and transformed to his likeness.

It is easy to say nice things that makes sense like you did but the bible doesn't really support what you said. The first Adam was made a living soul and all of us are going to be living souls until we are changed. I understand what you are saying but i don't agree because all the bible text which talk about the first and second adam do not really show that we are not subject to the law of God.
There is one important thing that you have forgotten. God told the first Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit and sin entered the world. The second Adam came and told us to have love fro God and love for our fellow men which is the message of the 10 commandments. If we disobey we will be following after the same example of the first Adam. Since we do not keep the law to be saved we then keep it out of love for the bible says that love is the fulfilling of the law. As long as there is sin in the earth there must be the knowledge of sin which is by the law. It is only when the sin is destroyed and the world is made new then we will be like how Adam and Eve was before they sinned. Disobedience to God's command is what caused this whole mess so therefore disobedience to God's commands will not help.

squint said:

Why do you over and over and over again continue to make Adam the same as the "sin that entered" Adam?

Don't you realize yet that the Law is made to show us that we as Gods children are not the same as the SIN INDWELLING our flesh and minds, which SIN abounds by THE LAW that is made to SEPARATE us from it's workings, yet AROUSES IT?

This is the most simple of understandings about THE LAW...yet it will continue to escape your eyes because it is also IN YOUR FLESH AND MIND...

It is quite possible to SERVE THE LAW in your MIND, but in your flesh, SIN will continue to show both IT'S presence and it's POWER...proving IT IS THERE.

Only a hypocrite will double deal on the Law, claiming adherance out of one side of their mouth and PROVING sin indwells them out of the other side, yet not SEPARATING from it's workings.



You still falsely portray that it is the disobedience of ADAM and EVE but the fact is it is the DISOBEDIENCE of SIN that was NOT THEM that is LAWLESS...

Adam was Gods son...(Luke 3:38)

Adam therefore was SPOTLESS spiritually speaking but BOUND to sin that was NOT HIM....

Any person who does not SEE this difference between themselves and the LAWLESSNESS that is in the flesh that is NOT THEM...remains a captive of SIN...

They only think IT'S THEM...when in fact IT'S NOT.



Having a DEATH SENTENCE hanging over your head for ETERNITY under "performance" is quite contrary to having "eternal freedom."

Adam and Eve's freedom was FREELY BUT...with a very big BUT OF DEATH attached to it...

The Law came with a DEATH SENTENCE, not FREEDOM for eternity.



What you will continue to utterly FAIL to understand is that the flesh and minds of Adam and Eve were made "subject to" the workings of deception which workings were AROUSED and EMPOWERED by the Law.

What you also will continue to utterly FAIL to understand was that the SIN THAT ENTERED the flesh and minds of Adam and Eve were NOT THEM, but of the SERPENT, the DEVIL in their flesh and minds...

And you continue to SHOW THAT WORKING by "counting sins" against Adam and Eve and overlooking entirely the workings of the OTHER PARTY in their flesh and minds....that is in fact a working of the devil in the flesh that is still rampant today.

Here is the most simplistic of principles, yet you do not, nor CAN YOU see it:

When you put THE LAWLESS under the LAW, the lawlessness is aroused, empowered, and abounding. That working in the flesh can DO NO DIFFERENT...and when you PUT THE LAWLESSNESS under the LAW it simply proves IT IS THERE, with you.

You still think it's ONLY YOU, or more accurately, only your lawless fellow man.



Measuring "eternal death" to your fellow man is the absolute most great hatred that is available on the planet, and THE DEVIL has worked that working in the flesh...

You cannot get any further AWAY from the Law of Life than that...and that is the showing of LAWLESSNESS to the GREATEST DEGREE available.

enjoy!

squint

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Squint. I understand what you are saying. The fact is however that we are held responsible for our sins. The wages of sin is death. Someone will have to pay for our sins. Either us or the devil. If we are under the blood the devil will pay for our sins. The blame will be put on him but if we are not covered by his grace then we will have to pay for our sins in the lake of fire. That is why God want us to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He does not want us to pay for our sins.

You can say that it is not us but it is the sin in us but then God will be unjust to kill anyone if you look at it that way.The fact is that we have a choice. We choose to sin when we do. If we stay grounded in Christ 24/7 we will never sin.

PROPHECYKID said:

Squint. I understand what you are saying. The fact is however that we are held responsible for our sins.

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When were you granted sinless flesh?

You will continue to make the same mistake over and over and over again.

You think it is YOU who sins, when in fact it is the presence of INDWELLING SIN that sins.

So no, I doubt very much you have come to this understanding, OR you would not "empower" the sin indwelling your flesh by placing it UNDER THE LAW.

The wages of sin is death. Someone will have to pay for our sins.

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I have no issues whatsoever with the devil and his messengers frying in the infamous Lake. So how I understand Gods Speaking and how you understand that same speaking will remain different.

YOU want to "count sins" against your fellow man, and burn them alive in conscious torment forever...

You cannot "hate" your fellow man any more than that. I do not attribute that hatred to YOU as Gods child, as I know where that hatred comes from.

Either us or the devil.

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Unquestionably, THE DEVIL will fry for sins.

Your fellow slaves will go free of that working...

Some of us see this now. ALL of Gods offspring will see The Grace of God. Every "captive" will go free of that working.

Jesus came to set the captives free. Jesus came to utterly condemn the workers of iniquity. Both statements are TRUE and both statements are directed to MANKIND who are comprised of Gods offspring WITH indwelling sin that is NOT THEM but of the DEVIL.

If we are under the blood the devil will pay for our sins. The blame will be put on him but if we are not covered by his grace then we will have to pay for our sins in the lake of fire.

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You merely mix the slave with the master.

Sin indwells your flesh no different than anyone else's. If you cannot "divide" yourself from that working, I certainly wouldn't expect you to "see the difference" with the other slaves...

And THEREFORE you also false count and condemn the WRONG PARTIES, showing that working of HATRED toward the very ones you are to LOVE.

That is why God want us to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He does not want us to pay for our sins.

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You are wrought with contradictions.

You still say in your head, I SIN or THE OTHER PERSON sins, when in fact it is INDWELLING SIN and EVIL PRESENT in the flesh and mind that sins.

Since you consider yourself as NO DIFFERENT than the "sinner" The Law has not done you a lick of good.

You can say that it is not us but it is the sin in us but then God will be unjust to kill anyone if you look at it that way.

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God has continued to make the DEVIL homeless now for some centuries...HIS HABITATIONS are continually turned back to DUST...and the children GO FREE from the DEVILS workings....which have been and will continue to be JUDGED and CONDEMNED in mankind.

The fact is that we have a choice. We choose to sin when we do. If we stay grounded in Christ 24/7 we will never sin.

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You cannot make the sin indwelling you NOT SIN...that is what sin indwelling DOES...it SINS.

Sin was always meant to be aroused and empowered for Ultimate Judgment, which WILL transpire when the cup of iniquity is FILLED.

We, all Gods offspring, were placed UNDER that suffering...to the last man, including God Himself IN THE FLESH. He too took on the suffering that we have in this present body of DEATH.

Jesus came to condemn SIN in SINFUL FLESH, not your "fellow man."

Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Being bound to disobebience, having sin indwelling the flesh does not make mankind THE SAME as what we are bound with.

Thinking that sin indwelling the flesh will be "sinless" is futile. Blaming your fellow man is even more futile.

And condemning them to burn alive is HATRED of the lowest order.

enjoy!

squint

PROPHECYKID said:

Jesus did die for our sins past, present and future. I don't believe however that means that we are automatically forgiven when we sin. I said this before and i will say it again. When God's spirit dwells within us we cannot sin. When temptation comes through the devil and we yield to the devil's temptation he causes us to sin. When we are in our practice of sin God's spirit cannot be dwelling in us for his spirit cannot dwell in sin. God's spirit cannot be in me when i am stealing from my brother regardless of my past relationship with God. God's spirit cannot dwell in me when i committing adultery. It's easy to understand. You are either controlled by God or Satan. If you are controlled by God you will not sin but the devil can tempt you. If you yield to the devil you will sin but the holy spirit will be speaking to you so that you could give God the control again.

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Good luck son trying to be perfect.

We can do NOTHING to save our souls from eternal damnation. Our salvation is a gift we receive through grace alone from our heavenly Father because of our belief His Son died, (sacrificed), Himself in our place in order to once and for all make us worthy to be in Gods presence in heaven forever.

Do you or do you not think that Gods only begotten Son, (God Himself here on earth in the flesh), sacrifice was sufficient to save your soul from hell? Do you realize how insulting it must be to God if we do not believe His Sons agonizing death on the cross on our behalf was not sufficient enough for our salvation?

Do you honestly believe there is one single solitary thing, (works), you can ever do to be worthy of living in the presence of our most perfect Lord forever? Christ has paid the price already!

Praise God we are not under the old covenant law that only served to prove we could NEVER be worthy of His love.