YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

One that is carnal minded cannot love with the love of God. For the Love that we love with is not our own love. This is where you keep confusing yourselves.. For if we are carnal minded we are selfish.. Christ was selfless.. Big difference.. Marc are you saying that you can love God with your own mind and your own will?

have you not read that the Law has changed because we now Have a new High Preist..

holo said:

God wants me to love Him freely and voluntarily, not because I'm ordered to.

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A law in the original Greek and Hebrew doesn't mean that you are ordered to. This is where you don't see that. Law in the original means instructions, teaching.


Numbers 15:30-31
30But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

This means that even if you are a Gentile you will be cut off and iniquity will be upon you.

Marc

Have those of us that have been born again not learned from Him what His law is? He has spoken it over and over and over.. Read the scriptures.. It is all about Love.. It is not about the commandments. No greater love is this than one that lays down His life for another..

Marc can you love God perfectly on your own accord?

HisbyAdoption said:

have you not read that the Law has changed because we now Have a new High Preist..

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So what commandments are the saints keeping in Revelation 14. I am 100% sure that it is Love for God and Love for your neighbor. The change of a high priest does not mean that we are no longer required to love God or our fellow man but it means that we are no longer required to offer sacrifices and the rituals that go along with those sacrifices.

PROPHECYKID said:

So what commandments are the saints keeping in Revelation 14. I am 100% sure that it is Love for God and Love for your neighbor. The change of a high priest does not mean that we are no longer required to love God or our fellow man but it means that we are no longer required to offer sacrifices and the rituals that go along with those sacrifices.

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The law is weak.. We cannot be subject to the law and Have perfect Love.. We have to be married to Christ and Have the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.. This is why John tells us that if we say we are of Him but hate our brother.. We lie and the truth is not in us.. Love is the Law of God..

HisbyAdoption said:

The law is weak.. We cannot be subject to the law and Have perfect Love.. We have to be married to Christ and Have the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.. This is why John tells us that if we say we are of Him but hate our brother.. We lie and the truth is not in us.. Love is the Law of God..

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1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The text says commandments. John is speaking of commandments. Yes if we love God and hate our brother then we are liars but John knows that the commandments are summed up by Love for God and love for man because he was with Jesus. Therefore John says that if we say we love God and do not keep his commandments then that means we steal, kill and so on and that will make us liars for a man who has love will not do those things.

PROPHECYKID said:

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The text says commandments. John is speaking of commandments. Yes if we love God and hate our brother then we are liars but John knows that the commandments are summed up by Love for God and love for man because he was with Jesus. Therefore John says that if we say we love God and do not keep his commandments then that means we steal, kill and so on and that will make us liars for a man who has love will not do those things.

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What are the commandments? That we LOVE.. For Love goes far and beyond the 10.. The law is weak...

mpossoff said:

A law in the original Greek and Hebrew doesn't mean that you are ordered to. This is where you don't see that. Law in the original means instructions, teaching.


Numbers 15:30-31
30But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

This means that even if you are a Gentile you will be cut off and iniquity will be upon you.

Marc

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That is reversed. lol

That would be like saying, 'those who worship UNDER the Law, will be cut off, and their iniquity will be upon them.'

Wait, it does say that. My, My, My.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Tkjjc said:

That is retarded. lol

That would be like saying, 'those who worship UNDER the Law, will be cut off, and their iniquity will be upon them.'

Wait, it does say that. My, My, My.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

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First Tkjcc it offends me that you call God's word retarded.

Second what does it mean to be under the law and subject to the law. There is a huge difference between the two.

Paul says Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God

The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. The spiritual mind is.

Tkjcc I'm referring being subject to the law of God and not under it. Two different things.Marc

I changed the word, before you had quoted it, but none the less, it wasn't directed at the verse, it was towards you for using it. But I thought it might offend, so it was changed. I am sorry though if it did offend you personally though. God knew what it meant, and how I meant it. And below is how it was intended:

You were using a verse in the Torah, trying to pertain that to a Christian, basically saying that Gentiles are damned, and there sins are still upon them, because they didn't follow, be under, be subject, to the Torah. That was offensive to me. Like I would ever be cut off , and you even trying to imply that I would. I am not a Gentile, MARC, I am a Child of the Living God, in which there is NO distinction between genders, religions, nationalities, or lineages. Part of the Body of Christ.

But none the less I must thank you. Because of you and our talks, my spirit has been enlarged by His Spirit. I understand now the Gospels. Why they were written, to whom they were written, what purpose they were written. So, Thank you. By His Love, His unending Love, it is wonderful to know. Know the things which some men may never know. To be revealed in such a way, that makes my spirit complete, with His.

Did you ever stop to think of why it was Paul, the Pharisee, the Roman, the Man of reputation, who was given charge to dispense the Gospel to the Gentile? And why it wasn't the other 12 Apostles?

Did you ever wonder why Paul never taught the Gentiles the Law, but only skimmed the surface, but only to describe differences between Law and Grace?

We have had many discussions of what in the bible pertains to Christians, and what pertains to Jews, and what pertains to Christian Jews.

This is in part what I have been given.

Jesus taught the Jews, as they needed the teaching in the purest form, from the only begotten Son of God. What the Law meant, how it was intended to be kept, and what the leaders of the day were doing wrong. For this, He was crucified. He claimed to be the Son of God, which by the way, ALL of us have the inherited right to do, if you are Born from Above in the Spirit. We are Children of God, which makes us sons and daughters of God. But that was blasphemy, even though it was recorded in psalms describing such. God wasn't THAT personal, even though He wanted to be. He wanted to be Father, but they wanted to be slaves, instead of sons. They traded their inheritence, for a bowl of stew. Jesus taught them parables, hoping that their eyes would be opened. He taught them the Love of Father, the Grace of Father, the Mercy of Father. He had every reason to live, but gave them what they needed the most. His Death. The only way for a New Covenant to be brought in. By Blood.


But see Gentiles weren't given the oracles of God. They had no Lineages going back to Moses. Their Lineage started with Abraham, and his promise, by God. They also didn't have any Laws, ways or days of worship, or any other such commandments. Barbaric for sure, with nothing to live for, except their pagan gods, and what they can muster in this life. Death, destruction, pillage, and conquer. Love to them must have seemed carnal at best, but there had to been some deeper hidden meanings behind their feelings of Love. We now know what this was. It was God working through their hearts. Opening them up. Writing His Love on them.

Why was Paul so profoundly against teaching the Law to the Gentile, to the point he confronted Peter? Because He knew they didn't need it. Any part of it. Jesus the Christ was enough. They had their King, and needed no other. They were indeed free! Like the days of old when Israel wanted a king, and God protested. Paul let them know they ALL fell short of God's glory, what it meant to be a fleshly carnal sinner separated by sin, describing this sin, and brought them into a new Kingdom, where ULTIMATE Love prevails. They didn't need to be under, nor subject to any of the old Law, as that Law was for the Carnal Mind, and not the Spiritual mind of Christ. He says to PUT ON, the mind of Christ, and when doing so, you will not be troubled with how to live, you SHOULD KNOW how to live, in this flesh. Walk in the Spirit, live in the Spirit, Love in the Spirit.

Jews don't understand this, as it destroyed ALL their control. Their control over the oracles. Their control over the Law. Their control over the people. Their control of even the money. Their control of the Land. It was ALL taken, and they were left desolate. They had none, nor will they ever have it again, without struggles and never ending war. And as they try to take it back, it will go against EVERYTHING Christ did on that Cross, that day. He is our King. He has the Control. He paid for this control by His own Blood, and if you want to be part of His Kingdom, you must and will have to recognize this fact. His ONLY LAW, if you should have to even call it that, is to LOVE, and be LOVED. If it takes a LAW for you to do this, I am sorry, but never the less, it is there. Recorded for ALL to see. HIS Perfect Law, as a Father would have for a Son, and a Son would have for His Brothers, because His Fathers will was above even His own will, and He Himself gave it to US. Completed, Whole, New. Restored unto the Kingdom from which we ALL came.

Some day you might see this. Maybe not. I have tried so hard to overcome this flesh, but the more I try, the more I fail. I will ALWAYS fall short this way. I am saddened it took this long to realize it. A lot of time has went into trying to discover the 'secrets' of the oracles, the 'secrets' of Revelations, and most of all, the 'secret' to which bound and blinded the Children from Father. But sad to say, it was all for naught. There is no secret that won't be opened to those who seek. There is no hidden messages to the oracles. There is no hidden message in Revelations. Christ REVEALED is the only secret, and to get this secret, you can only go to the one place in the universe, to which the secret will be revealed. Do you know where this is? I'll give you hint, it isn't a book, or a scroll.

Tkjjc said:

That is reversed. lol

That would be like saying, 'those who worship UNDER the Law, will be cut off, and their iniquity will be upon them.'

Wait, it does say that. My, My, My.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

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Tkjcc if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law but that doesn't mean you are not subject to it. Again two different things.

Marc

fritz300 said:

amen, just as He freely and voluntarily wants you to walk a holy and righteous lifestyle according to His beautiful marriage covenant with us!

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His covenant with the believer isn't engraved on stone or based on our behaviour. It is made in the blood of Christ.

fritz300 said:

anyways, just curious, what do you think we'll be doing in the Kingdom?

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We certainly won't be focused on the mosaic law, which was for Israel and until Christ, which had its time until John.

fritz300 said:

We will be following God's rules, God's Law, God's commands when the Kingdom is established here for 1,000 years according th the Scriptures.

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Not the mosaic law, though. For instance, there will be no animal sacrifices or stonings, and I don't believe anyone will need to be told not to murder each other.

Not the mosaic law, though. For instance, there will be no animal sacrifices

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This is unscriptural my friend, the Millennial versus in Ezekiel explicitly say that animal sacrifices will be reinstated during the Millennial reign of Christ here on earth.

Regards,
fritz

mpossoff said:

holo there is a big difference between being under the law and subject to the law.

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Hi Mpossoff,
I am not following your reasoning here and wondered if
you could give some sort of definition for your idea
of the difference between subject and under.

Dictionary.com shows:
[Origin: 1275–1325; (adj.) < L subjectus placed beneath, inferior, open to inspection, orig. ptp. of subicere to throw or place beneath, make subject, equiv. to sub- sub- + -jec-, comb. form of jacere to throw + -tus ptp. suffix; r. ME suget < OF < L, as above; (n.) < LL subjectum grammatical or dialectical subject, n. use of neut. of subjectus; r. ME suget, as above; (v.) < L subject&#257;re, freq. of subicere; r. ME suget(t)en < OF sugetter < L, as above

]

Thank you in advance,
sunlover

BTW, I believe that we now have the law written
on our hearts and that we actually live now by a
much higher law.
Because we have God in us, we are a new creation,
and walk not according to this world system's ways,
but according to the kingdom ways.

Jesus said that NOW, we dont even curse our brother,
whereas before it was said, Do not commit murder.
Before it was said not to commit adultry, NOW dont
even LUST after a woman.

etc.


sunlover

PROPHECYKID said:

There you go. mpossoff has used the text again and again that says that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God but the spiritual.

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And y'all seem to skip over the bible's numerous verses that the law is for
a) Israel,
b) the wicked and ungodly, and
c) the living.
I'm not in either of those categories.

Also, the law has never been divided, it's still a whole (not one iota of it should pass), and nowhere does the bible say that it was given to gentiles or to believers. On the contrary, Paul makes a point of the fact that we are heirs to Abraham, who didn't have the law, as opposed to Moses. Furthermore, we are specifically instructed NOT to live according to the letter.

PROPHECYKID said:

The Law does not cause us to Love

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We agree there!

The law doesn't make us love. On the contrary, it is the power of SIN. The more law, the more sin.

holo said:

Not the mosaic law, though. For instance, there will be no animal sacrifices or stonings, and I don't believe anyone will need to be told not to murder each other.

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Amen.
We now offer the sacrifice of..
PRAISE.

mpossoff said:

A law in the original Greek and Hebrew doesn't mean that you are ordered to. This is where you don't see that. Law in the original means instructions, teaching.

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So what exactly is the difference between being "instructed" to do something, and being "ordered" to do it. Isn't the law a commandment? Is it just a suggestion? Does it demand that you fulfil it to the letter, or does it merely say "try your best, that'll do"?

And what exactly is this mysterious difference between being under something and being subject to it?

mpossoff said:

Numbers 15:30-31
30But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

This means that even if you are a Gentile you will be cut off and iniquity will be upon you.

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Yes, times were hard in the old covenant, especially if you were a gentile in Israel and failed to live up to the demands of the law. But what does this have to do with salvation in the new covenant?

fritz300 said:

This is unscriptural my friend, the Millennial versus in Ezekiel explicitly say that animal sacrifices will be reinstated during the Millennial reign of Christ here on earth.

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???

So... what sins, or whose sins, is it that needs to be paid for with the blood of animals during the millennial reign?