YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

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Tkjjc:

Jesus said: "If you love me keep my commandments". Therefore the Sabbath should be a delight for you to honor and keep holy. Most Christians look at the Sabbath as a Jewish thing in negative. When the Sabbath was given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden thousands of years before a Jew existed. It was to be a special day out of the week to cease your regular labour and to renew relationships with God and one another. Unfortunately, in the first century when Jesus came to earth the Pharisees and Saddusees had added hundreds of man made restrictions to the Sabbath commandment as it was written by the fingers of God. That is what Jesus had a problem with, man made tradtions, not God's commandments.

BrightCandle said:

Tkjjc:

Jesus said: "If you love me keep my commandments". Therefore the Sabbath should be a delight for you to honor and keep holy. Most Christians look at the Sabbath as a Jewish thing in negative. When the Sabbath was given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden thousands of years before a Jew existed. It was to be a special day out of the week to cease your regular labour and to renew relationships with God and one another. Unfortunately, in the first century when Jesus came to earth the Pharisees and Saddusees had added hundreds of man made restrictions to the Sabbath commandment as it was written by the fingers of God. That is what Jesus had a problem with, man made tradtions, not God's commandments.

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But see, that is just a doctrine of a few particular churches. Sabbath Keeping that is. I have studied it, when I was going through my journey of Truth. I loved to listen to David Asscherick and could sit for hours going through his sermons. They focus on a doctrine that the Sabbath as deemed the seventh day was never intended to be changed, but through the CC, it was by decree. I totally understand this line of thinking, as it should have never been changed, nor modified. That goes against totally what Jesus taught. Not one jot or tittle.

Problem with this whole line of thought is this, and I keep repeating it until I am blue in the face. You cannot "keep" it all, and if you fall in just one part, you fall in ALL of them. No one can "keep" them. No, not one. No matter how hard they try, they will fail. If you secluded yourself upon a mountain top, or in a monastery, you could never "keep" them, because Love would be missing towards our fellow man, by sharing the Good News of the Kingdom. Our jobs are to bear fruit. Otherwise we might as well die now. Why wait?

A lot of people preach on the doctrines, but miss the point. Good News isn't something for a select few. It is for ALL. Salvation comes through Jesus, cut and dry. No other way can get you into the gates of heaven. To believe upon the Son is the ONLY requirement. None other. How many different denominations claim superiority over doctrines? The list is long, and yours is no different. But how can salvation, or being saved, happen for the millions who don't know Jesus? They are excluded? Why should ALL men suffer death because of one man, Adam, but not get the gift of grace, by the second Adam, Jesus? So bottom line is this.

Jesus said "if you love me, "keep" my commandments". Where do you "keep" them? If you say, on my heart, then there isn't 10, there are many many more. Perhaps hundreds or even thousands. But he said the most important primary of ALL. IF YOU LOVE ME, which if the greatest of them ALL.

Can you understand this, or is it too much? How does one claim to be right, while everyone is wrong? How does one follow Babylon's ways, which is anti-god or anti-Christ in nature, and then claim that they follow 10 commandments written on stone? And trust me, we live in a modern version of Babylon. The whole world system does. Anything that doesn't bring one closer to God and to His Son, is working against it, in some way shape or form. Revelation wasn't written to herald the end of the world. It was written to reveal who Jesus was, is, and is yet to come. But only the Spirit can guide someone to that Truth. As it reveals Jesus's Spirit. Revelation of Jesus Christ. Can it happen today? Sure! It can happen today for anyone who seeks Him.

And btw, I do Honor the Sabbath, but only out of a Love I share for Father and His Son. If I have to work that day, then I try to do it out of Love, for bettering someone else. Maybe bring them closer to God, or introduce them to Jesus. By our actions and words, we show that which we are commanded to give. It isn't always easy, but it sure isn't burdensome either.

Why would Jesus write something in stone with his own finger, if he knew if was impossible for us to keep them? My God doesn't play with us like that.

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He wasn't playing..That was the covenant to Isreal.. The commanments were also written so that we could stand guilty before God.. Why? So we would know that we needed a savior to save us. The written commandments accuse us before God.

Tkjjc said:

But see, that is just a doctrine of a few particular churches. Sabbath Keeping that is. I have studied it, when I was going through my journey of Truth. I loved to listen to David Asscherick and could sit for hours going through his sermons. They focus on a doctrine that the Sabbath as deemed the seventh day was never intended to be changed, but through the CC, it was by decree. I totally understand this line of thinking, as it should have never been changed, nor modified. That goes against totally what Jesus taught. Not one jot or tittle.

Problem with this whole line of thought is this, and I keep repeating it until I am blue in the face. You cannot "keep" it all, and if you fall in just one part, you fall in ALL of them. No one can "keep" them. No, not one. No matter how hard they try, they will fail. If you secluded yourself upon a mountain top, or in a monastery, you could never "keep" them, because Love would be missing towards our fellow man, by sharing the Good News of the Kingdom. Our jobs are to bear fruit. Otherwise we might as well die now. Why wait?

A lot of people preach on the doctrines, but miss the point. Good News isn't something for a select few. It is for ALL. Salvation comes through Jesus, cut and dry. No other way can get you into the gates of heaven. To believe upon the Son is the ONLY requirement. None other. How many different denominations claim superiority over doctrines? The list is long, and yours is no different. But how can salvation, or being saved, happen for the millions who don't know Jesus? They are excluded? Why should ALL men suffer death because of one man, Adam, but not get the gift of grace, by the second Adam, Jesus? So bottom line is this.

Jesus said "if you love me, "keep" my commandments". Where do you "keep" them? If you say, on my heart, then there isn't 10, there are many many more. Perhaps hundreds or even thousands. But he said the most important primary of ALL. IF YOU LOVE ME, which if the greatest of them ALL.

Can you understand this, or is it too much? How does one claim to be right, while everyone is wrong? How does one follow Babylon's ways, which is anti-god or anti-Christ in nature, and then claim that they follow 10 commandments written on stone? And trust me, we live in a modern version of Babylon. The whole world system does. Anything that doesn't bring one closer to God and to His Son, is working against it, in some way shape or form. Revelation wasn't written to herald the end of the world. It was written to reveal who Jesus was, is, and is yet to come. But only the Spirit can guide someone to that Truth. As it reveals Jesus's Spirit. Revelation of Jesus Christ. Can it happen today? Sure! It can happen today for anyone who seeks Him.

And btw, I do Honor the Sabbath, but only out of a Love I share for Father and His Son. If I have to work that day, then I try to do it out of Love, for bettering someone else. Maybe bring them closer to God, or introduce them to Jesus. By our actions and words, we show that which we are commanded to give. It isn't always easy, but it sure isn't burdensome either.

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Tkjjc what does it mean 'the days are coming...I will write My Torah on their hearts'?

Marc

THREE ASPECTS OF THE LAW

In order to understand this matter of the law, we must know the three aspects of the law: the principle of the law, the commandments of the law, and the rituals of the law. If you do not differentiate between these three things, you will never have a proper understanding of the law. As we have seen, the principle of the law is over. Today, in the dispensation of grace, God does not deal with us according to the principle of the law; rather, He deals with us according to the principle of faith. Whether or not we shall be justified, saved, and accepted by God depends on the principle of faith, not the principle of the law. As long as we have faith in Christ, we are justified by God, accepted by Him, and saved. This is what it means for the principle of the law to be abolished in Christ under the dispensation of grace.

Although the principle of the law has been abolished, the commandments of the law have not been annulled. Instead, the standard of these commandments has been uplifted. Thus, the commandments, related to the moral standards, have not been abolished; they will remain for eternity. Even for eternity we should not worship an idol, murder, steal, or lie. In His heavenly kingdom the King has uplifted the standard of the law in two ways: by complementing the lower laws and by changing the lower laws into higher laws. In this way the morality in the commandments of the law has been uplifted to a higher standard.

The kingly Savior Himself kept all the commandments of the law when He was on earth. Then He went to the cross to die for us. Through His substitutionary death, He fulfilled the law on the negative side. Furthermore, through His substitutionary death, He released His resurrection life into us, and we now have this resurrection life in our spirit. Because we are able to live by this resurrection life, we have the strength, ability, and capacity to have the highest standard of morality. As we walk according to the spirit (Rom. 8:4), we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, fulfilling even more than the law requires. Therefore, we do not abolish the law; rather, we fulfill it in the highest way.

The third aspect of the law is the rituals of the law. For example, offering sacrifices and keeping the Sabbath are outward rituals of the law. These rituals were also terminated because they were part of the old dispensation of shadows, figures, and types, all of which have been fulfilled by Christ as the reality. We are no longer obligated to observe the rituals of the law. Therefore, the principle of the law and the rituals of the law have been terminated, but the commandments of the law, which require a high moral standard, have not been terminated. Rather, these commandments have been uplifted. By means of Christ as the resurrection life in our spirit, we can fulfill the standard of morality required by the higher law of the kingdom of the heavens.

The principle of the law has been abolished, but the commandments of the law have not been abolished. Just because the principle of the law has been abolished, never think that the commandments of the law have also been abolished and that there is no need to honor our parents or to refrain from stealing. No, instead of being abolished, the commandments of the law have been uplifted. Although our contact with God is not based upon the principle of the law, we must still observe the uplifted commandments of the law.

Although the commandments of God have not been abolished, one of these commandments, the law about keeping the Sabbath, is not related to morality. Rather, it is a ritual law. A ritual is a form, a shadow, that we need no longer observe today. For example, we do not need to offer animal sacrifices, do we? Likewise, we no longer need to keep the Sabbath. In the Old Testament, the age of shadows, there was the need for the sacrifices, the feasts, and the keeping of the Sabbath. But today is an age of reality. Our sacrifice is not a lamb or a goat; it is Christ, the reality of all the Old Testament sacrifices. In like manner, our rest is not a particular day; it also is Christ. Because Christ, the reality, is here, all the shadows are over. Because the commandment to keep the Sabbath is a ritual commandment, not a moral commandment, we are not obligated to keep it today. This commandment is not related to morality, but to the shadow, the form, which is now over.


Gods dealings with Abraham were based upon Gods promise. God did not give Abraham the commandments of the law; He gave him only the promise. Thus, God dealt with him according to His promise. The promise given by God to Abraham became the principle according to which God dealt with him. Later, God gave the law to the children of Israel through Moses. The law given on Mount Sinai thus became the principle according to which God dealt with the children of Israel. In this way the law became the principle for Gods dealings with His people in the Old Testament. Now in the New Testament God deals with the believers according to faith, no longer according to the law. This is fully developed in the books of Romans and Galatians. If you read these books, you will see that God deals with the believers in Christ not according to the law, but according to faith. In Old Testament times God accepted people according to the law. If anyone wanted to be accepted by God, he had to meet the standard of the law. But today God accepts us, not according to the law, but according to whether or not we believe in Christ. Thus, Gods acceptance of us today is based on faith.

The fact that God no longer deals with us, the believers, according to the principle of the law does not mean that the commandments of the old law have been abolished. For instance, the first two commandments of the old law were concerned with not having other gods and with not making images. To say that the principle of the law has been abolished does not mean that these commandments have been abolished. Rather, according to the New Testament, these commandments are emphasized, strengthened, and uplifted. In the Old Testament we were told not to make a physical image, but in the New Testament we are told that even our covetousness is a form of idolatry (Col. 3:5). Greediness is an idol. By this we see the uplifting of the commandment regarding idolatry. Yes, the principle of the law has been abolished, but not the commandments of the law. The commandment about honoring our parents has never been abolished. In the New Testament this commandment is also repeated, strengthened, and uplifted. We must honor our parents much more today than the children of Israel did in the past.

We have seen that the Lord Jesus also uplifted the commandments regarding murder and adultery. Because the Old Testament commandments regarding murder and adultery were not adequate, the Lord complemented them. The old commandment concerning murder did not cover the matters of hatred or anger. Thus, the Lord complemented the old law concerning murder by saying that anyone who was angry with his brother would be liable to judgment. He also complemented the commandment concerning adultery by saying that anyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her in his heart. By these examples we see that the moral laws have never been abolished; rather, they have been uplifted. All of the ten commandments have been repeated and uplifted in the New Testament except the fourth commandment, the commandment to keep the Sabbath. This commandment is over because it is not related to morality. Instead, it is a ritual commandment.

IamAdopted said:

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In response to your question; the decalogue is but a summary of the law.

Is bestiality a sin?

Librarian said:

In response to your question; the decalogue is but a summary of the law.

Is bestiality a sin?

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Did God create man to have this kind of relationship with beast? From the beginning?

IamAdopted said:

Did God create man to have this kind of relationship with beast? From the beginning?

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In the New Tesament it is not mentioned but in Exodus we read "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." There is continuity!

mpossoff said:

Tkjjc what does it mean 'the days are coming...I will write My Torah on their hearts'?

Marc

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Well, it says my law, and it will be on their inward parts, and He will write it on their heart. Jer 31:33

Also Hebrews 8:10 and 10:16 explain this even further.

The New Covenant is the part where you seem to be lacking in understanding. We live by faith, under grace, out of Love. I have already explained this repeatedly. No man is my teacher, for I have but 1. No one is my Father, as I have but 1. We know what the will of Father is, as it has been explained in detail. Not the letter of the law which condemns a man, but the Word of the Law which makes ALL men live. Jesus is that Word.

You use that word Torah interchangeably throughout your teaching, but Torah was also used of Abraham. This is in Gen 26:5, same word. What part of Torah did he use, as it wasn't written yet? Betcha it was written on HIS HEART. This is the confusing part. Unless you understand what the Torah is, how does one "keep" it. Abraham kept his out of faith and Love for God. If there was ever a man who did a better job of this before Jesus, it was him. And he had no letter to follow. When Love is abound, there is no need for the letter, as the Word lives, in you. It is written on your heart, and lives in your heart. My 7 year old daughter understands this completely, so why is it so hard for men to?

I have no doubt that God has laws. But to say that we need to OBEY laws meant for people a few thousand years ago, and they apply to us today, is ridiculous. My laws that are written on MY heart, apply to me and me alone. My body is the tabernacle, and my heart is my most holy of holies. Not a tent for ALL to go to, or a temple for ALL to worship. MINE, just like yours is YOURS. Different people, different laws. What convicts me, doesn't mean it will convict you. But this convicts me to righteousness, and makes a better man, father, and Child of God. Since I am already saved by the Blood of Christ, my spirit is going home. My flesh still needs more overcoming, and this is the journey we all must walk, in faith, under grace, out of Love. We are built this way, which is how it should be, and what Christ wanted. Wait, what did He want? Well, let us read it:

Jhn 15:17 "This I command you, that you love one another.
Jhn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before you.
Jhn 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Jhn 15:20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
Jhn 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 "He who hates Me hates My Father also.
Jhn 15:24 "If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.
Jhn 15:25 "But to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

Tkjjc said:

Well, it says my law, and it will be on their inward parts, and He will write it on their heart. Jer 31:33

Also Hebrews 8:10 and 10:16 explain this even further.

The New Covenant is the part where you seem to be lacking in understanding. We live by faith, under grace, out of Love. I have already explained this repeatedly. No man is my teacher, for I have but 1. No one is my Father, as I have but 1. We know what the will of Father is, as it has been explained in detail. Not the letter of the law which condemns a man, but the Word of the Law which makes ALL men live. Jesus is that Word.

You use that word Torah interchangeably throughout your teaching, but Torah was also used of Abraham. This is in Gen 26:5, same word. What part of Torah did he use, as it wasn't written yet? Betcha it was written on HIS HEART. This is the confusing part. Unless you understand what the Torah is, how does one "keep" it. Abraham kept his out of faith and Love for God. If there was ever a man who did a better job of this before Jesus, it was him. And he had no letter to follow. When Love is abound, there is no need for the letter, as the Word lives, in you. It is written on your heart, and lives in your heart. My 7 year old daughter understands this completely, so why is it so hard for men to?

I have no doubt that God has laws. But to say that we need to OBEY laws meant for people a few thousand years ago, and they apply to us today, is ridiculous. My laws that are written on MY heart, apply to me and me alone. My body is the tabernacle, and my heart is my most holy of holies. Not a tent for ALL to go to, or a temple for ALL to worship. MINE, just like yours is YOURS. Different people, different laws. What convicts me, doesn't mean it will convict you. But this convicts me to righteousness, and makes a better man, father, and Child of God. Since I am already saved by the Blood of Christ, my spirit is going home. My flesh still needs more overcoming, and this is the journey we all must walk, in faith, under grace, out of Love. We are built this way, which is how it should be, and what Christ wanted. Wait, what did He want? Well, let us read it:

Jhn 15:17 "This I command you, that you love one another.
Jhn 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before you.
Jhn 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Jhn 15:20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
Jhn 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Jhn 15:23 "He who hates Me hates My Father also.
Jhn 15:24 "If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.
Jhn 15:25 "But to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

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Is Yeshua God, and therefore the giver of the Torah?

Marc

mpossoff said:

Is Yeshua God, and therefore the giver of the Torah?

Marc

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Is He God and therefore giver of Jesus with the new covenant of His Only begotten Sons shed blood for the sins of many? The Law accuses us before God..

IamAdopted said:

Is He God and therefore giver of Jesus with the new covenant of His Only begotten Sons shed blood for the sins of many? The Law accuses us before God..

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IAA I didn't ask that I asked....

Is Yeshua God, and therefore the giver of the Torah?

Marc

IamAdopted said:

Is He God and therefore giver of Jesus with the new covenant of His Only begotten Sons shed blood for the sins of many? The Law accuses us before God..

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Luke 10:17 And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, `Sir, 'even the demons are being subjected to us in Thy name;'
18 He said yet to them: "I beheld the Adverary [LAW/PRIESTHOOD], as lightening/a-bright-star/astraphn <796> out of the heaven, falling/pesonta <4098> (5631) ".

Reve 9:1 And the 5th messenger sounds a trumpet, and I perceive a Star/astera <792> out of the heaven, having fallen/peptwkota <4098>(5761) into/to the land[f],

mpossoff said:

Is Yeshua God, and therefore the giver of the Torah?

Marc

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We are dancing Marc, aren't we.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Can you explain this verse to me? I understand it, but I want to see if you do. Because if you do understand it, then you already know the answer to the question.

Tkjjc said:

We are dancing Marc, aren't we.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Can you explain this verse to me? I understand it, but I want to see if you do. Because if you do understand it, then you already know the answer to the question.

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It means Yeshua was the giver of the Torah to answer the question I asked.

Marc

mpossoff said:

It means Yeshua was the giver of the Torah to answer the question I asked.

Marc

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Ok, and you believe this? Yeshua is God in the OT?

mpossoff said:

IAA I didn't ask that I asked....

Is Yeshua God, and therefore the giver of the Torah?

Marc

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I know and I asked you? Yes God gave the Isrealites the law.. This is the bond woman we read about in Galatians. Then He gave Abraham a Promise. This is the free woman we read about in Galatians. It is the free that is our mother and not the bound one..

Tkjjc said:

Ok, and you believe this? Yeshua is God in the OT?

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Yeshua is God therefor the giver of the Torah.

Marc

Tkjjc,

Where do we find this New Covenant? In the Torah. This is what Paul is telling us in 2 Cor. That both the NC and the OC are both fully expressed in the same Torah. The difference between the two is the person doing the reading. Under one covenant the reader is veiled, the meaning is concealed, the truth is hidden. Under the other covenant the reader is unveiled, the meaning is revealed, the recipient is being transformed into the glory of Messiah.

The difference between the OC and the NC is not the Torah because both covenants employ it. Gods&#8217; eternal Torah is unchanging. The difference between the two covenants is us. Transformed, renewed, recreated, remade, new creatures in Messiah..Torah being written on our hearts.

For if that first protose had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a deutero.

What was wrong with the first? God found fault with His people. Because finding fault with them

He says: &#8220;Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

What was wrong with the first covenant? Was it the Torah that was faulty? Or was it the people who broke the Torah who were faulty?

The problem with the first is that God found fault with people. The weakness of the first covenant is that it&#8217;s a covenant made with human beings. Fallen creatures. Even as we give we give it our very best shot, we can&#8217;t do it. Even as we try our hardest we still have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. God keeps His end of the bargain in the protose covenant. But we don&#8217;t keep ours. So what should God do, lower the bar and remove the Torah and say &#8220; ok it doesn&#8217;t matter , you know what I changed my mind, I was just bluffing about all that Torah stuff. Forget all that Torah stuff it didn&#8217;t matter.&#8221; Is that what you think of God?

However He can change us! We are the created. If we have been created we can be re-created. He&#8217;s the Creator.

Marc