Yes, children were present in household baptisms. Biblical evidence.

[BobRyan]

Faith is a gift from God (Eph 2) It is not of an intellectual process.

The Bible never argues for babies having faith , or babies accepting or believing anything. Neither does scripture ever condemn babied for refusing to believe something the way it condemns adults who do that.

I am pretty sure this is irrefutable. both sides agree.

John the Baptist and Jeremiah were regenerated in the Womb.

I don't know of anyone who claims that John the baptizer or that Jeremiah were "believers" in the womb or that infants of that ability to fathom abstract topics such as sin, salvation, gospel, redemption.

I am pretty sure this is irrefutable. both sides agree.

God can bring the gift of faith to anyone regardless of age.

Your logic is thin at that point as you seem to want to apply it to infant, and the fetus in the womb.

The Bible says "believes and is baptized" and you appear to want to claim infants are "believers".

David even trusted God upon his mother's breast Ps. 22).

That is a stretch in this context of who can hear and believe the Bible.
But hold that thought - because I think you are defining the most glaring gap between our two positions - and clarifying it for all to see.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The Bible never argues for babies having faith , or babies accepting or believing anything. Neither does scripture ever condemn babied for refusing to believe something the way it condemns adults who do that.

Are you saying God cannot give infants and the pre born infant faith? When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit articulated by Scripture, does this mean he is a state of unbelief?

 

[prodromos]

I don't know of anyone who claims that John the baptizer or that Jeremiah were "believers" in the womb

You haven't read Luke's Gospel?

or that infants of that ability to fathom abstract topics such as sin, salvation, gospel, redemption.

Why do you believe such is necessary? God meets everyone at their level of ability.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

that infants of that ability to fathom abstract topics such as sin, salvation, gospel, redemption.

So are you saying only a person who can think abstractly can be a believer? So what about a person who has a IQ of 70? Or 60? or 50? Can they become Christian? Do you believe a person should be administered an IQ test before they are baptized as an adult?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Some serious questions need to be addressed here.

that infants of that ability to fathom abstract topics such as sin, salvation, gospel, redemption.

If a person has to ‘understand’ before being baptism, then what is this absolute, non-negotiable ‘something’ that must be understood? And where is this non-negotiable something for children found in Scripture?

And even if we could establish a non-negotiable 'something' to be understood, who among us will decide if it is properly understood?

Just how does one quantify comprehension and translate that into proper faith and belief?

Credobaptists are demanding a level of discernment far beyond the capability of any pastor.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Some serious questions need to be addressed here.

If a person has to ‘understand’ before being baptism, then what is this absolute, non-negotiable ‘something’ that must be understood? And where is this non-negotiable something for children found in Scripture?

And even if we could establish a non-negotiable 'something' to be understood, who among us will decide if it is properly understood?

Just how does one quantify comprehension and translate that into proper faith and belief?

Credobaptists are demanding a level of discernment far beyond the capability of any pastor.

We teeter on the precipice of what, if anything, demarcates a Christian from a non-Christian. Is there such a reality as ignorance of such extent that God cannot, or will not, condemn a person simply based on their complete and utter ignorance of Christianity? At what point does a baptized individual cease to be a partaker of salvation? Does baptism eternally assure individuals of personal salvation? Does the absence of baptism eternally condemn people from entering heaven?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Does baptism eternally assure individuals of personal salvation? Does the absence of baptism eternally condemn people from entering heaven?

As Augustine wrote: It is not the absence of baptism that damns, but its despisal.

My diagnostic question here at CF: Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian? So far over the last three years, only two members have affirmed baptism is optional for the Christian.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As Augustine wrote: It is not the absence of baptism that damns, but its despisal.

My diagnostic question here at CF: Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian? So far over the last three years, only two members have affirmed baptism is optional for the Christian.

The problem, of course, is the the vast majority of humans hardly despise baptism. In fact, with modern hygiene most folks bathe, or shower, daily, which is the root meaning of baptism. As a Christian rite, the vast majority of humans do not despise baptism, because they are completely and utterly ignorant of it.

However, your diagnostic question appears to me to be circular in nature. If one is a Christian, then one will, of course, be baptized. If one is not a Christian (say, a baby) then the baby is no different than any of the multitudes of people which I just described who engage in bathing or showering on a regular basis. Such activity has no more effect on their eternal destiny than washing oneself inside the walls of a church.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The problem, of course, is the the vast majority of humans hardly despise baptism. In fact, with modern hygiene most folks bathe, or shower, daily, which is the root meaning of baptism. As a Christian rite, the vast majority of humans do not despise baptism, because they are completely and utterly ignorant of it.

However, your diagnostic question appears to me to be circular in nature. If one is a Christian, then one will, of course, be baptized. If one is not a Christian (say, a baby) then the baby is no different than any of the multitudes of people which I just described who engage in bathing or showering on a regular basis. Such activity has no more effect on their eternal destiny than washing oneself inside the walls of a church.

I use the diagnostic question: Do you believe baptism is optional? And it works!

Read this sequence @ Bible proof that the Thief on the cross never got water baptized.
#45. It is a duzzie.
_______

TruthofLove said, I see water baptism as not needed at all for any believer today.#46

So are you saying baptism is optional?

TruthofLove said, Maybe you could read my response again I said it’s not needed at all, just like circumcision or animal sacrifices. But if any want to do so as a figure and not making it needful for salvation then I don’t make issue with that. #48

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I see rejection of Christian baptism is not uncommon here on CF. TruthofLove rejection of baptism if fairly typical in its argumentation. A wedge is driven between the Book of Acts and Paul's writings....Sad. So I disagree with your post. I am surprized you don't see a rejection of Baptism here more often. If you look for it, you will see it.