yes.... another global warming thread

SonicBOOM · Jun 13, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDi...-the-truth-about-the-global-warming-hoax.aspx

after watching this video I started to relize that there IS zero proof that CO is heating up the earth. If the earth is heating up, there is no real proof that CO is the cause of it.

I'm not really convinced at all by the whole Global Warming thing because I've heard alot of arguments but it actully seems to me that the most well-thought out and scientific arguments have been AGAINST global warming.

AceHero · Jun 14, 2008

Hey, if The Weather Channel founder John Coleman says that global warming is "the greatest scam in history" I'm more apt to believe him, a former meteorologist, than Al Gore. Eastern Washington had a awful winter than lasted from at least October to April. It was 38º in the morning on Monday; the coldest this week has ever been here.

Tinkerbell33 · Jun 14, 2008

I will subscribe to this thread later because it seems interesting.

Oh and Acehero global warming affects weather patterns, some places will get hotter and some will get colder.

silentpoet · Jun 14, 2008

If humans have caused global warming on earth, what explains the warming of mars and jupiter?

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

AceHero said:
Hey, if The Weather Channel founder John Coleman says that global warming is "the greatest scam in history" I'm more apt to believe him, a former meteorologist, than Al Gore. Eastern Washington had a awful winter than lasted from at least October to April. It was 38º in the morning on Monday; the coldest this week has ever been here.

thats just it to! The people who claim that global warming is real aren't even equipted to be studying that feild in the first place! While the more scientific minds are against global warming. All of the people I found who disagree with man-made global warming are like science proffessors at yale and harvard and stuff like that.

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

BeckyH said:
Oh and Acehero global warming affects weather patterns, some places will get hotter and some will get colder.

Becky the only thing that concerns me about this theroy is that when this whole thing first started, the argument was that world-wide the 90s were the hottest centery for 1000 years. When political leaders say this and THAN change their argument for what honestly seems like an attempt to make their argument more beleivable. Than I really don't know....

Reanimation · Jun 14, 2008

Masked_Chris said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDi...-the-truth-about-the-global-warming-hoax.aspx

after watching this video I started to relize that there IS zero proof that CO is heating up the earth. If the earth is heating up, there is no real proof that CO is the cause of it.

1. We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

2. We know that current levels of atmospheric CO2 have far outstripped anything that can be explained by natural variation.

3. We know that we are the cause of the recent increase in CO2 levels. (E.g. take a look here.)

4. The recent increase in global average temperature (this a is trend, this does not mean that everywhere is going to become warmer immediately. Some places may even cool while the global average temperature continues to rise) is a direct result of the increase of greenhouse gas concentrations (not just CO2- methane, water vapour etc also act as greenhouse gases).

5. We are ruining the Earth's method of dealing with excess atmospheric carbon. When we destroy rainforests, we also destroy one of the Earth's major carbon sinks. Forests are an essential part of the carbon cycle- without their ability to remove atmospheric carbon and convert it into other forms, atmospheric CO2 levels will continue to increase rapidly.

I'm not really convinced at all by the whole Global Warming thing because I've heard alot of arguments but it actully seems to me that the most well-thought out and scientific arguments have been AGAINST global warming.

Wow, how did all of the world's major science bodies miss this amazing evidence?

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

speaking of John Coleman, here's an artical of what he has to say about the whole thing

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the research to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.
Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild scientific scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmental conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.
I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, ie Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you believe in. It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably wont believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.
I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming. In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

Reanimation said:
1. We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

no one said it wasn't a greenhouse gas. Politics don't seek to create flat out lies, they seek to prevert the truth. What if CO isn't quite as damaging as people think it is?

2. We know that current levels of atmospheric CO2 have far outstripped anything that can be explained by natural variation.

I've seen other, much more complex charts, that claim that this chart to be untrue. The earth has been MUCH warmer in it's history than it is now. Plus most of these complex charts claim that we started our research on the climate during the COLDEST period of time in the last 10,000 years. Hence.... adding to the illusion that the world is "heating up"

3. We know that we are the cause of the recent increase in CO2 levels. (E.g. take a look here.)

of course we are! Cars don't spew out flowers and dandolions. My point though is CO is a very natural gas that HAS seen increases AND decresses in the history of our world WITHOUT our influence.

Besides it's only assumed that CO increase is a bad thing. as the video i posted claims. It's a natural gas. therefore it has caused plant increase and sense plants have more to take in, they have more to give off.

4. The recent increase in global average temperature (this a is trend, this does not mean that everywhere is going to become warmer immediately. Some places may even cool while the global average temperature continues to rise) is a direct result of the increase of greenhouse gas concentrations (not just CO2- methane, water vapour etc also act as greenhouse gases).

I just find it hard to beleive that the world is THIS unstable. Honestly if the world can't handle a little change in it's envirement than how on EARTH did it last over a billion years??

5. We are ruining the Earth's method of dealing with excess atmospheric carbon. When we destroy rainforests, we also destroy one of the Earth's major carbon sinks. Forests are an essential part of the carbon cycle- without their ability to remove atmospheric carbon and convert it into other forms, atmospheric CO2 levels will continue to increase rapidly.
Wow, how did all of the world's major science bodies miss this amazing evidence?

I ran out of time, i'll answer this one later...... maybe.

Reanimation · Jun 14, 2008

The earth has been MUCH warmer in it's history than it is now.

No one is denying that. The Earth goes through (and has been through) warming and cooling phases. The difference here is the forcing function that humans have created. This effect will result in a unnatural and unstable change in global weather patterns. Yes, global weather patterns change over time, but not this rapidly. This time, we are the cause.

Plus most of these complex charts claim that we started our research on the climate during the COLDEST period of time in the last 10,000 years. Hence.... adding to the illusion that the world is "heating up"

Hardly, seeing as we have data readily available from the last 400,000 years:

of course we are! Cars don't spew out flowers and dandolions. My point though is CO is a very natural gas that HAS seen increases AND decresses in the history of our world WITHOUT our influence.

Yes it's a natural gas, but it is not natural for it to be present in the atmosphere at the concentration observable today. Take a look at that source I gave you describing the isotopic ratios.

Besides it's only assumed that CO increase is a bad thing. as the video i posted claims. It's a natural gas. therefore it has caused plant increase and sense plants have more to take in, they have more to give off.

No, it hasn't 'caused plant increase', we're clearing huge areas of forest (the very opposite)- destroying the Earth's ability to cope with excess atmospheric CO2.

I just find it hard to beleive that the world is THIS unstable. Honestly if the world can't handle a little change in it's envirement than how on EARTH did it last over a billion years??

It can't handle such rapid, destructive change. Besides, even slight, gradual shifts in climate are enough to cause mass extinction events (which have dotted the Earth's history).

Tink · Jun 14, 2008

What I'd like to know is how there information from 40000 years ago and where it came from, exactly?

Reanimation · Jun 14, 2008

SweetlyBroken said:
What I'd like to know is how there information from 40000 years ago and where it came from, exactly?

The data came from ice cores.

If you would like to read about how this is done, then check out NASA's site here.

Tink · Jun 14, 2008

Reanimation said:
The data came from ice cores.

If you would like to read about how this is done, then check out NASA's site here.

Oh, okay.

It's like their best guess. Right on.

Thanks for the info!

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

Reanimation said:
No one is denying that. The Earth goes through (and has been through) warming and cooling phases. The difference here is the forcing function that humans have created. This effect will result in a unnatural and unstable change in global weather patterns. Yes, global weather patterns change over time, but not this rapidly. This time, we are the cause.

no proof

Hardly, seeing as we have data readily available from the last 400,000 years:

I've seen graphs that differ from this one.... vastly differ.

Yes it's a natural gas, but it is not natural for it to be present in the atmosphere at the concentration observable today. Take a look at that source I gave you describing the isotopic ratios.

again.... no proof.

No, it hasn't 'caused plant increase', we're clearing huge areas of forest (the very opposite)- destroying the Earth's ability to cope with excess atmospheric CO2.

no proof.

It can't handle such rapid, destructive change. Besides, even slight, gradual shifts in climate are enough to cause mass extinction events (which have dotted the Earth's history).

ummmmm there have only been maybe 3-4 events in history where mass-extinsion resulted. And every single one of these was a result of an incredably massive event that took place. Ice Age and the like....

silentpoet · Jun 14, 2008

If ManBearPig is real, what can we do to stop him. I don't know if my 40 caliber Sig 229 would have enough stopping power. That makes me afraid. And I am being super serial about that.

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/globalwarming.html

this is worth reading. It claims that climate is changing because of the radation in the sun and it presents a pretty good argument. It says that climate cycles are real and they exist because of the ever changing sun that is responsable for a huge part of our climate. It says that from the time between 1975 - 1998 there has been a huge increase in temptiture. However after the year 1998 was over, the dramatic shift stopped. And this dramatic shift will no doubt go DOWN again once the sun changes again and creates ANOTHER climate cycle.

There is 2 news articals posted on this website as well. One about global warming in 1922 and one about global cooling in 1975. Both reporting the very same thing and I think you'll find that the similarities are VERY uncanny to our reports today.

the one from 1922:

the one from 1975:

great catastrophic events, melting icecaps, food limitations, enivetable destruction, "we need instant action". Sound familar?

ernest_theweedwhackerguy · Jun 14, 2008

BeckyH said:
I will subscribe to this thread later because it seems interesting.

Oh and Acehero global warming affects weather patterns, some places will get hotter and some will get colder.

Sorry, but it's like that through the world, at all times. Every environment is always changing and either getting hotter or colder.

Reanimation said:
The data came from ice cores.

If you would like to read about how this is done, then check out NASA's site here.

Hahaha, sorry, but ice cores are a HUGE focus on "the war against global warming." But it's like this, carbon dating is far from accurate if the margins are over, say, 6 thousand years. How? why? Because that's all the further back that records can prove that things existed. So really, the biggest joke, aside from the ice cores, IS carbon dating.
But it's like this. A lot of focus on global warming has to do with the frozen continents melting. Like how they say Antarctica is melting away, and it's going to raise the oceans levels and flood shore lines, and the like.
Now, do a science experiment. It's really easy, but try it.
Take however many ice cubes and put them in a cup.
Fill the cup up with water and let it sit until the ice has all melted.
Now, after that, document whether or not the glass overflowed, due to the ice melting.

Try it.
See what happens.

SonicBOOM · Jun 14, 2008

ernest_theweedwhackerguy said:
. So really, the biggest joke, aside from the ice cores, IS carbon dating.
But it's like this. A lot of focus on global warming has to do with the frozen continents melting. Like how they say Antarctica is melting away, and it's going to raise the oceans levels and flood shore lines, and the like.
Now, do a science experiment. It's really easy, but try it.
Take however many ice cubes and put them in a cup.
Fill the cup up with water and let it sit until the ice has all melted.
Now, after that, document whether or not the glass overflowed, due to the ice melting.

Try it.
See what happens.

haha! Very nice.... Basic science. Thats all thats needed to prove our point.

Reanimation · Jun 14, 2008

SweetlyBroken said:
Oh, okay.

It's like their best guess. Right on.

Thanks for the info!

It's no 'guess'. It's well evidenced.

Masked_Chris said:
no proof

I've seen graphs that differ from this one.... vastly differ.

again.... no proof.

no proof.

I've given you plenty of evidence, now you're being ridiculous.

ummmmm there have only been maybe 3-4 events in history where mass-extinsion resulted. And every single one of these was a result of an incredably massive event that took place. Ice Age and the like....

There have been many more mass extinction events than the big five that people are most familiar with. Warming has also been demonstrated to be the cause of extinction events in the past. Don't believe me? Then take it up with the authors of this paper.

Masked_Chris said:
this is worth reading. It claims that climate is changing because of the radation in the sun and it presents a pretty good argument. It says that climate cycles are real and they exist because of the ever changing sun that is responsable for a huge part of our climate. It says that from the time between 1975 - 1998 there has been a huge increase in temptiture. However after the year 1998 was over, the dramatic shift stopped. And this dramatic shift will no doubt go DOWN again once the sun changes again and creates ANOTHER climate cycle.

Nevermind that research has shown that solar variation isn't the cause of present day climate change.

the one from 1975:

great catastrophic events, melting icecaps, food limitations, enivetable destruction, "we need instant action". Sound familar?

Sensationalist magazines! What a surprise!

Now, let's see what the scientists had to say.

From the preface of the very report that article is talking about:

"Our response to the concerns [about climate variations [WMC]] is the proposal of a major new program of reseach designed to increase our understanding of climatic change and to lay the foundation for its prediction".

The report doesn't believe that predictions can be made yet, and recommends that more research be done.

From the intro:

"Climatic change has been a subject of intellectual interest for many years. However, there are now more compelling reasons for its study: the growing awareness that our economic and social stability is profoundly influenced by climate and that man's activities themselves may be capable of influencing the climate in possibly undesirable ways. The climates of the earth have always been changing, and they will doubtless continue to do so in the future. How large these future changes will be, and where and how rapidly they will occur, we do not know".

Such fear-mongering.

So, what about this global cooling?

"The question remains unresolved. If the end of the interglacial is episodic in character, we are moving toward a rather sudden climatic change of unknown timing, although as each 100 years passes, we have perhaps a 5% greater chance of encountering its onset If, on the other hand, these changes are more sinusiondal in character, then the climate should decline gradually over a period of thousands of years. These climatic projections, however, could be replaced by quite different future climatic scenarios due to man's inadvertent interference with the otherwise natural variation...

So, in summary, they admit that they do not have sufficient evidence to make predictions, that more research needs to be done, and that any idea of a cooling trend could easily be shown wrong with further research- which is exactly what occurred in subsequent years.

ernest_theweedwhackerguy said:
Hahaha, sorry, but ice cores are a HUGE focus on "the war against global warming." But it's like this, carbon dating is far from accurate if the margins are over, say, 6 thousand years.

Carbon dating is accurate for dating up to 50,000 years back, plus it's only one dating method of many.

How? why? Because that's all the further back that records can prove that things existed.

Completely false, seeing as zircons found in Australia have been shown to be over 3.8 billion years old.

But it's like this. A lot of focus on global warming has to do with the frozen continents melting. Like how they say Antarctica is melting away, and it's going to raise the oceans levels and flood shore lines, and the like.
Now, do a science experiment. It's really easy, but try it.
Take however many ice cubes and put them in a cup.
Fill the cup up with water and let it sit until the ice has all melted.
Now, after that, document whether or not the glass overflowed, due to the ice melting.

Try it.
See what happens.

Nice try, but the sea levels will still rise. There's a lot of water locked up in Antartic and Artic ice, whether it be in icebergs or land ice sheets.

SonicBOOM · Jun 15, 2008

Reanimation said:
Now, let's see what the scientists had to say.

From the preface of the very report that article is talking about:
The report doesn't believe that predictions can be made yet, and recommends that more research be done.

From the intro:
Such fear-mongering.

So, what about this global cooling?
So, in summary, they admit that they do not have sufficient evidence to make predictions, that more research needs to be done, and that any idea of a cooling trend could easily be shown wrong with further research- which is exactly what occurred in subsequent years.

ummmm guess what? The research is STILL in it's infancy. Honestly if our knowlege about weather is still so limited that we can't even predict a weather patturn acceratly for a week's time? [how often is your weather man correct?]. Than I can't be expected to beleive that the science we have now is anymore up-to-date than it was all those years ago.

Besides it just seems weird to me that those articals presented such absulute answers when they KNEW the science was incomplete. I quote from the 1975 artical "this famine should accur in the next 10 years?] They predicted their "ice age" to happen by 1985! If they TRULY weren't seeking propaganda and were REALLY trying to inform the people of the truth? they wouldn't put such absulute answers in the artical when the answers really are NOT so absulute!

Those articals really remind me of today's message on global warming, and guess what? the science IS still incomplete! What does that mean for us? NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

yes.... another global warming thread

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