YECs, do I deserve credit?

[philadiddle]

Sorry for the accounting babble but bear with me.

Situation 1

I receive utility bills at work and I have to make complicated calculations in order to allocate them to the appropriate departments, and send out invoices based on rented space. I manually make these calculations every month.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Situation 2

I set up the computer and enter the rules in the programming to automatically receive an electronic bill, calculate distribution, and set up an invoice for the renters. It does all this on it's own and notifies me when it's done.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

 

[juvenissun]

Sorry for the accounting babble but bear with me.

Situation 1

I receive utility bills at work and I have to make complicated calculations in order to allocate them to the appropriate departments, and send out invoices based on rented space. I manually make these calculations every month.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Situation 2

I set up the computer and enter the rules in the programming to automatically receive an electronic bill, calculate distribution, and set up an invoice for the renters. It does all this on it's own and notifies me when it's done.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Yes, and yes.
What trap did I fall into?

 

[Assyrian]

Yes, and yes.
What trap did I fall into?

It is interesting you don't see it

 

[juvenissun]

It is interesting you don't see it

I guess I could. But I was lazy.
And there are always some alternative interpretations.

 

[Assyrian]

Alternative to what philadiddle meant?

 

[philadiddle]

Yes, and yes.
What trap did I fall into?

So the idea that the computers were set up in a way to handle the job automatically isn't in direct opposition to the idea that I got the job done?

 

[juvenissun]

So the idea that the computers were set up in a way to handle the job automatically isn't in direct opposition to the idea that I got the job done?

OK, I am giving you a puzzle back:

What would you do if you discovered that your computer program started to change its function and charge more and more on some of your clients? Would you sit there and smile because your original program is designed so well?

 

[Assyrian]

A program that modifies itself and adapts to each customer? I'd say he should charge even more for that.

 

[juvenissun]

A program that modifies itself and adapts to each customer? I'd say he should charge even more for that.

The only problem is that the modification is beyond the control of the programmer. If a client said something nice to the computer, then the program may even issue a check to him.

 

[Assyrian]

Sounds even more valuable.

 

[philadiddle]

OK, I am giving you a puzzle back:

What would you do if you discovered that your computer program started to change its function and charge more and more on some of your clients? Would you sit there and smile because your original program is designed so well?

Could you also please answer the question you are responding to? You didn't actually give an answer to post #6.

Computer programs are patched all the time in order to upgrade them. If I could make a program that patched itself that would be pretty impressive.

Sometimes it may even make errors and charge more to a customer, but feedback from the customer would act as a form of natural selection and the change that caused the error would be weeded out.

That would be one hell of a piece of software. I'd be rich.

 

[juvenissun]

So the idea that the computers were set up in a way to handle the job automatically isn't in direct opposition to the idea that I got the job done?

I guess not. You made the program work. Whatever it does, it is your credit.

So what?

 

[philadiddle]

I guess not. You made the program work. Whatever it does, it is your credit.

So what?

So if God sets up evolution to make us does that mean He deserves the credit for our creation? Or does evolution necessarily stand in opposition of the idea that He made us?

 

[juvenissun]

So if God sets up evolution to make us does that mean He deserves the credit for our creation? Or does evolution necessarily stand in opposition of the idea that He made us?

This is one of my major opposition to the idea of TE.

The process of evolution is random. It is not controlled by God (if it is, then it is not random). And it does not make any sense that we were eventually evolved after so many many life forms after such a long long time.

This is what my "out-of-control" computer program implied. The out of control process can not be credited to the programmer.

Good try. But, hmm... not a good analogy.

 

[Gozreht]

Sorry for the accounting babble but bear with me.

Situation 1

I receive utility bills at work and I have to make complicated calculations in order to allocate them to the appropriate departments, and send out invoices based on rented space. I manually make these calculations every month.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Situation 2

I set up the computer and enter the rules in the programming to automatically receive an electronic bill, calculate distribution, and set up an invoice for the renters. It does all this on it's own and notifies me when it's done.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

The main problem with this analogy is you were the receiver. God sent you the bill. You still had to pay the bill. What you do with the bill is where it all goes wrong. If God wanted the bill to be paid by electronic and you choose to pay it manually then you were wrong to do so.

Now, of course my words are non-sensical but so is this analogy of the OP. They can't be compared. So it doesn't matter what the answer is to it. So to answer it anyway. Yes to both. So what?

 

[Jase]

The process of evolution is random. It is not controlled by God (if it is, then it is not random).

How does it being random remove God's credit? If God dictated it be random for his own purposes, why would that matter? God doesn't personally control the movement of Continental plates either. Doesn't mean they weren't his intention.

And it does not make any sense that we were eventually evolved after so many many life forms after such a long long time.

Ever played Simcity? Building your city from the ground up, and watching it blossom through mechanisms you built into it is what makes it enjoyable and valuable. An instantly created city is boring. And seeing as time is meaningless to God, and he presumably sat around for trillions and trillions of years prior to choosing to create the universe, why would the length of time it took for humans to develop make the slightest bit of difference? God, being all-knowing, would know the exact time frame it would take humans to develop as a society, and lead to Jerusalem and the Roman Empire, whereby Jesus would enter the picture.

I see absolutely zero issue with the length of time for species to develop.

This is what my "out-of-control" computer program implied. The out of control process can not be credited to the programmer.

Good try. But, hmm... not a good analogy.

God can't control evolution if he wanted to? Why? Even a random system can be manipulated by its creator by changing various parameters.

 

[Greg1234]

How does it being random remove God's credit? If God dictated it be random for his own purposes, why would that matter? God doesn't personally control the movement of Continental plates either. Doesn't mean they weren't his intention.

Ever played Simcity? Building your city from the ground up, and watching it blossom through mechanisms you built into it is what makes it enjoyable and valuable. An instantly created city is boring. And seeing as time is meaningless to God, and he presumably sat around for trillions and trillions of years prior to choosing to create the universe, why would the length of time it took for humans to develop make the slightest bit of difference? God, being all-knowing, would know the exact time frame it would take humans to develop as a society, and lead to Jerusalem and the Roman Empire, whereby Jesus would enter the picture.

I see absolutely zero issue with the length of time for species to develop.


God can't control evolution if he wanted to? Why? Even a random system can be manipulated by its creator by changing various parameters.

Well it would be more consonant with spiritual activity if God made the soul and spiritual components of every kind, and they could move into or away from matter through will. The former manifesting as the physical creation. Earth creating man however...hm.

 

[Assyrian]

This is one of my major opposition to the idea of TE.

The process of evolution is random. It is not controlled by God (if it is, then it is not random). And it does not make any sense that we were eventually evolved after so many many life forms after such a long long time.

This is what my "out-of-control" computer program implied. The out of control process can not be credited to the programmer.

Good try. But, hmm... not a good analogy.

So random is too difficult for God? How could Paul say Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose, when the bible also teaches says Eccl 9:11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all. God works all things for the good except anything random or chance?

 

[juvenissun]

So random is too difficult for God? How could Paul say Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose, when the bible also teaches says Eccl 9:11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all. God works all things for the good except anything random or chance?

It is not. But if God is in control, then it is not random.
Do you think the evolution process has a trend or a direction?

 

[miamited]

Sorry for the accounting babble but bear with me.

Situation 1

I receive utility bills at work and I have to make complicated calculations in order to allocate them to the appropriate departments, and send out invoices based on rented space. I manually make these calculations every month.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Situation 2

I set up the computer and enter the rules in the programming to automatically receive an electronic bill, calculate distribution, and set up an invoice for the renters. It does all this on it's own and notifies me when it's done.

Do I deserve credit for the fact that the bills are paid, the allocation is done properly, and the invoices were sent out?

Hi phil,

Do you deserve credit? Sure, we all deserve credit for the work that we do. In case #1 you deserve more credit than in case #2. In the first case you did all the work. In the second case you did part of the work and the computer did the rest, so the one who designed and programmed the computer would get the credit for that contribution to the overall effort.

I can clearly see the point you are driving at and it's a wonderful anology.

In the case of the creation the God who created it all perfectly and did all the work deserves more glory, honor and praise than the one who did only part of the work and let some other device finish it.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted