YECs, did the universe begin?

[philadiddle]

I've asked this before but it's been quite a while.

YECs, do you think the universe had a beginning? Or has it always been here? How do you know?

 

[miamited]

Hi philadiddle,

For me that would depend on what you mean by 'universe'. All the physical forms contained within the expanse of empty space were created about 6,000 years ago. The actual empty void of nothing that surrounds all the physical forms of the universe probably existed forever.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[philadiddle]

Hi philadiddle,

For me that would depend on what you mean by 'universe'. All the physical forms contained within the expanse of empty space were created about 6,000 years ago. The actual empty void of nothing that surrounds all the physical forms of the universe probably existed forever.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Thanks for responding. Regarding your two seperate claims (the physical forms being 6,000 years old and empty space being eternal) how do you know this?

 

[mark kennedy]

I've asked this before but it's been quite a while.

YECs, do you think the universe had a beginning? Or has it always been here? How do you know?

Yes! to the first question and for the second, Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:18-22.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[TasManOfGod]

In the beginning there was only one thing - God (Gen 1:1)

 

[miamited]

hi phil,

I know the physical forms were created about 6,000 years ago because the Scriptures tell me so. The space in which this realm exists is empty nothingness and may well have always been there, however, that part is only an understanding that I have come to entertain, but not make a firm decision on.

I know that it is a difficult concept to grasp because we have no way of even considering limitless, empty, nothingness. One of the teachers who improved my understanding of this is Frank Peretti. In his fictional stories he paints an existence of, for lack of a better word, 'layered' realms. In other words, the realm of the kingdom of God and the physical realm in which we live occupy the same space and so that space has existed eternally, but the filling of that space for the support of life of different kinds of creatures is the work of God.

So, when we read in the Scriptures of an angel appearing to someone, it isn't that the angel necessarily traveled some great distance from God's kingdom to ours, but that there was made a way that a 'hole' was torn in what prevents us from seeing the kingdom of God that is all around us. This understanding seems also to be fairly well defined when Jesus was with us and driving out demons. The demons were here. They were living among us. We just can't see them or hear them with the eyes and ears that God created us to have.

Pray on it and think on it.
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[philadiddle]

Yes! to the first question and for the second, Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:18-22.

Grace and peace,
Mark

In the beginning there was only one thing - God (Gen 1:1)

I know the physical forms were created about 6,000 years ago because the Scriptures tell me so.

OK, I agree with that. Now, if you were discussing this with a non-believer is there any scientific reason you could give him to think the universe had a beginning? Thanks

 

[mark kennedy]

OK, I agree with that. Now, if you were discussing this with a non-believer is there any scientific reason you could give him to think the universe had a beginning? Thanks

Ever hear of the Big Bang? Atheistic materialists are locked into the universe being all their is and that is just one of the patented absurdities of their departure from reality.

 

[philadiddle]

Ever hear of the Big Bang? Atheistic materialists are locked into the universe being all their is and that is just one of the patented absurdities of their departure from reality.

So you agree with the evidence for the big bang?

 

[mark kennedy]

So you agree with the evidence for the big bang?

I think the evidence is clear, God spoke and *BANG* there it was. BTW, the could have been, and probably was, a considerable amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Do you have a point?

 

[philadiddle]

I think the evidence is clear, God spoke and *BANG* there it was. BTW, the could have been, and probably was, a considerable amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Do you have a point?

Could you please clarify your view for me? How old do you think the universe is and how old do you think the earth is?

Thanks

 

[mark kennedy]

Could you please clarify your view for me? How old do you think the universe is and how old do you think the earth is?

Thanks

It's well into the billions as far as I can tell and the scientific consensus is that it most certainly did have a beginning, a very sudden one. The actual sphere is only slightly younger then the rest of the universe but less then 10,000 years ago was covered in water and utter darkness, void and without form. Biological life was created exactly as described in Genesis in a matter of days and on the days of creation it didn't take all day to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I am under to compulsion of any kind to accept an old earth or cosmology. I just realize that the Scriptures are silent on that particular point, both as canon and as understood literally from the narratives as literature.

Hope that helps to clarify, feel free to ask any follow up questions that occur to you.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[philadiddle]

It's well into the billions as far as I can tell and the scientific consensus is that it most certainly did have a beginning, a very sudden one. The actual sphere is only slightly younger then the rest of the universe but less then 10,000 years ago was covered in water and utter darkness, void and without form. Biological life was created exactly as described in Genesis in a matter of days and on the days of creation it didn't take all day to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I am under to compulsion of any kind to accept an old earth or cosmology. I just realize that the Scriptures are silent on that particular point, both as canon and as understood literally from the narratives as literature.

Hope that helps to clarify, feel free to ask any follow up questions that occur to you.

Grace and peace,
Mark

This thread was intended for those who think the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Since you don't think that, I don't really have a point to make to you.

 

[mark kennedy]

This thread was intended for those who think the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Since you don't think that, I don't really have a point to make to you.

Really? Thought it was for those interested in whether or not it had a beginning. At any rate, thanks for the exchange.

 

[1robin]

I've asked this before but it's been quite a while.

YECs, do you think the universe had a beginning? Or has it always been here? How do you know?

Yes the universe most certainly had a beginning. It is impossible that the history of the universe extends infinitely backward. Mathematics and logic make it clear that an infinite number of past events (seconds) cannot be crossed or spanned. Since we know it had a beginning and that if anything begins to exist then it owes its existence to something other than itself. The almost universal scientific consensus is that matter, space, and time began to exist at the same time. This is rather similar to the first scripture of the bible.
　
The New International Version
In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

Since anything that begins has to be caused by a something else, then something created the universe, and this something could not have been part of the universe. It had to be non-material, omnipotent, omnipresent, and personal. This is the exact description God gives of himself.
As far as how long ago was the universe created, you got me I haven’t got that far yet..

 

[philadiddle]

The almost universal scientific consensus is that matter, space, and time began to exist at the same time.

So am I correct to think that you accept the big bang theory and that the universe is about 13-14 billion years old?

edit - I see this is your first post. Welcome.

 

[1robin]

So am I correct to think that you accept the big bang theory and that the universe is about 13-14 billion years old?

edit - I see this is your first post. Welcome.

Thanks for the welcome. It appears you are trying to get me to set up a position to attack, which is fine but why don't we just get to it as I am lazy. I really don't have an opinion on the Big Bang (I don't think at this time the initial conditions are knowable). As far as the age I do not rule out an old universe but as a Christian I still look for evidence of a young earth, and there is quite a bit. However I regard the age of the earth in the bible as it's weakest claim but I have definately not ruled it out. If by some chance the bible turned out to be correct and most of the scientific community wrong it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Jase]

As far as the age I do not rule out an old universe but as a Christian I still look for evidence of a young earth, and there is quite a bit.

What makes you think that? Do you have examples of this evidence that apparently every reputable scientist on Earth has missed for the last 200 years?

However I regard the age of the earth in the bible as it's weakest claim but I have definately not ruled it out. If by some chance the bible turned out to be correct and most of the scientific community wrong it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Do you know of another example where the Bible was right, and all scientists were wrong that's actually provable?

 

[philadiddle]

I really don't have an opinion on the Big Bang (I don't think at this time the initial conditions are knowable).

Why would the initial conditions have to be knowable for us to know that the universe took 13.5 billion years to get to where it is now?

As far as the age I do not rule out an old universe but as a Christian I still look for evidence of a young earth, and there is quite a bit.

Like what? Please name your best one.

However I regard the age of the earth in the bible as it's weakest claim but I have definately not ruled it out. If by some chance the bible turned out to be correct and most of the scientific community wrong it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I would also like an example of when the bible was right about science and scientists were wrong.

 

[1robin]

Why would the initial conditions have to be knowable for us to know that the universe took 13.5 billion years to get to where it is now?

Like what? Please name your best one.

I would also like an example of when the bible was right about science and scientists were wrong.

I am currently bogged down with troubleshooting an F-15 diagnostic system but I intend to answer you as soon as I can. I haven't researched the age of the earth in a while it will take a bit. If you wanted to debate the age of the earth (that's fine but) why didn't you or whoever made this thread say so upfront?