Ya know, Evangelicals

[DZoolander]

really need to pick their battles better when it comes to their culture wars.

My wife took our six year old daughter out to see Beauty and the Beast today...and of course I had to ask. Given all the hoopla about the movie, the blog posts you saw going around about how people were cancelling their vacations to Disney World, people were up in arms about the "Gay Agenda being shoved down our throats", etc...was the scene that noticeable? Was it worth the furor?

Apparently there's a scene at the end of the movie where everyone is dancing, and the camera pans across the room. If you remember the original cartoon, there's a scene where the talking dresser falls on this dude and he pops out wearing a dress, screams and runs off. Apparently there's a similar scene in this movie, and when the camera pans across the room showing everyone dancing, you catch a glimpse of La Fou dancing with that dude. The pan moves on, and the glimpse is gone.

Really? All that hype over that? You'd swear based upon what people were saying that there was a scene with LaFou having actual acts of homosexual intimacy. That I could see people cancelling their trips over. But that?

I asked my wife if she brought it up with our daughter, and thankfully she hadn't. So I asked her "Did you notice anything weird in the movie? Anything that seemed out of the ordinary?" "Well there were magical candlesticks and clocks that talked". No mention of LaFou and his 2 seconds on screen dancing with that other guy.

Is anyone here not seeing it because of that? lol

 

[John Hyperspace]

really need to pick their battles better when it comes to their culture wars.

My wife took our six year old daughter out to see Beauty and the Beast today...and of course I had to ask. Given all the hoopla about the movie, the blog posts you saw going around about how people were cancelling their vacations to Disney World, people were up in arms about the "Gay Agenda being shoved down our throats", etc...was the scene that noticeable? Was it worth the furor?

Apparently there's a scene at the end of the movie where everyone is dancing, and the camera pans across the room. If you remember the original cartoon, there's a scene where the talking dresser falls on this dude and he pops out wearing a dress, screams and runs off. Apparently there's a similar scene in this movie, and when the camera pans across the room showing everyone dancing, you catch a glimpse of La Fou dancing with that dude. The pan moves on, and the glimpse is gone.

Really? All that hype over that? You'd swear based upon what people were saying that there was a scene with LaFou giving some dude [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] or something. That I could see people cancelling their trips over. But that?

I asked my wife if she brought it up with our daughter, and thankfully she hadn't. So I asked her "Did you notice anything weird in the movie? Anything that seemed out of the ordinary?" "Well there were magical candlesticks and clocks that talked". No mention of LaFou and his 2 seconds on screen dancing with that other guy.

Is anyone here not seeing it because of that? lol

People have a tendency to blindly judge everything based on what other people tell them without actually investigating any claims whatsoever. It''s not just a Christian-based phenomenon. Having said that: I just, I feel the need to say, I'm not sure these people are really representing the spirit of Christ. I just think that should be said. I really question whether or not they are representing Christ. I just want to make sure that gets said. That's all I have to say about that. Just in case someone is inclined to say, they show that the bible is... that would be a false conclusion guilty of the same blind judgment based on lack of investigation. I just felt the need to put that out there.

 

[Bumble Bee]

It is definitely over blown. I think that there are many people who like to stir up discord, and others who don't research for themselves. Lefou isn't even an important character, so I would question the import of his sexuality in the movie. It doesn't change the plot. Not only that, but there was no uproar in Frozen when the shop owner guy waved to his huband in the hot tub. People are just looking for reasons to fight, and this is the current one.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Kind of sad the responses so far are in favor of LGBT. Sure the scene of him was like 2 seconds. But the fact there is LGBT character in it is why people are concerned. That and they changed the original characters sex just to be politically correct. The more we fluff it off as "Eh, it really wasn't that bad!" is how things get worse. The LGBT movement started out in little bits too originally. In the 80s LGBT was a big no no. Wasn't in movies really, wasn't in tv...etc. Then as the years went by Ellen came out as a gay comedian and people started to like her and pay to see her. Then show with Rosanne Bar came out which had LGBT stuff and it started to get more accepted. Then Will and Grace...etc until at this point its perfectly fine to have LGBT everywhere. Even kissing and naked in movies/on tv...even in games.

But if we want to look past all that then we should think of our kids. Sure they wouldn't of noticed LGBT stuff in a movie (unless it was super obvious). But as they are growing up they will do what we do.For example maybe they tell you they love this really great show about a LGBT couples. You will be like "Honey that is NOT good show to watch. They are in sin!". And the kids will be like "But you let me see things sometimes that had LGBT stuff!".

Hopefully you get what I am saying. They learn from us. If we accept a little LGBT here and there, so will they. And if anything may accept it more. Now I can't claim I am perfect. I'm guilty of doing the same thing. In one of the recent Star Treks Sulu is seen kissing his "partner" on the space station. That threw me for a loop when I seen it. But I still enjoyed the movie. I complained of course online later and I am really having hard a time on if I will see the next movie or not. Especially because I have (as stated) done the "Well a little bit here and there is ok!".

But to each their own. I just am trying to back down on anything with LGBT, more so if its for children because of how impressionable they are.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I remember years ago the hoopla surrounding the television show 'Soap' which featured a homosexual couple (males) as part of the regular cast.

So of course, my wife and I watched it. The homosexual couple were NOT presented as the most intellectual and successful people on the show. In fact, they both had some serious self-doubt and emotional problems. The rest of the show varied from the rather funny to the absurd. It ran three years.

In that same time frame, an assistant pastor at the church I attended made an impassioned plea for 'action' to convince lawmakers to NOT pass a bill in the state legislature. He said it would usher in a legal means of incest and other disgusting happenings.

I read the bill. It would repeal some long standing and long ignored laws banning sexual 'variations' among consenting adults, including married couples (long before same sex marriage). I later brought that to the assistant pastor and asked him about it. He lamely told me that was what some other people told him and he hadn't bothered to read it.

So I must agree with Bumble Bee. There are some stances we shouldn't alter, based on scripture. On the other hand, Christians should not fly off the handle at the least stimulus.

 

[tansy]

I remember years ago the hoopla surrounding the television show 'Soap' which featured a homosexual couple (males) as part of the regular cast.

So of course, my wife and I watched it. The homosexual couple were NOT presented as the most intellectual and successful people on the show. In fact, they both had some serious self-doubt and emotional problems. The rest of the show varied from the rather funny to the absurd. It ran three years.

.

That's weird - I used to watch Soap, it was a really funny programme - but I don't remember a homosexual couple at all. Perhaps I just dismissed them in my mind, or didn't realise. I don't know how obvious it was. Strange that I wouldn't have noticed. Perhaps they weren't on the programme all the time..and I didn't necessarily watch it every week.

 

[snoochface]

There are LGBT people in the pew next to you at church. You may not be aware of them, but they are there. Unless your church has 100 people in it, statistically it's likely. Jesus died for them too, and overreaction to every little issue (like a 2 second dance scene at the end of a movie) makes them feel like maybe Jesus hates them since His followers hate them. How many people can we reflect Christ's love to if we would just stop making tiny issues into big ones, and making *this* sin greater than *that* sin (especially when *this* sin happens to be not OUR sin)?

 

[mkgal1]

I haven't seen the movie yet (but our whole family plans to soon). I agree with John's post, earlier, that said that many people often judge blindly based on what they're told. Like so many of the other outrages (Sbux not having "Merry Christmas" cups, for instance. Don't MOST retailers NOT have "Merry Christmas" bags?).

Something I found interesting is that this "boycott" was called long before the movie was released, so doesn't that mean that Disney had been the first to "expose" this scene? What could be the reason for that, I wonder? ISTM it could have been a matter of "bad publicity is still publicity". I don't know.

I listened to a sermon the other day where the pastor had asked the question, "Are we looking at the Bible through a cultural lens....or are we looking at culture through a biblical lens?". The distinction can be noticed by our response to nuanced statements and situations. He gave an example (that's not related to this topic....but the responses are)-- that if he'd said something like, "we need to show compassion for refugees in need of food and shelter" a lot of people would immediately translate that as a political statement (and probably label the person as a liberal--and attach assumptions to the person along with that). But is that "political".....or is it just repeating the Bible? Since when is "compassion" NOT biblical....and only a political statement? YKWIM? Life (and people) are more than just two options.

 

[mkgal1]

Ezoo....have you seen the documentary, "The Brainwashing of my Dad"?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

So people are still saying God said to love, not to sweat the small stuff essentially. But if you recall God also said small sin turns into big sin.

So for example a young couple meets for the first time. During they are tempted to hold hands. So they do, its little and innocent after all. Not sex. At the end of the date they really want to kiss, but they know its tempting more if they do it. But they held hands so what a little kiss. They kiss. Their next date the start to want to kiss a few times. Again, they figure they kissed once, a few times won't be a big deal. They can hold off any other urges. Near the end of the date they feel it deep within. They want to maybe put hands where they shouldn't go. But... they handled kissing.... it can't be that hard to stop right? They know they are already starting over a dangerous line.

So they start using their hands and messing around. Next thing you know they are having full on sex and before they blink an eyes its over. They sinned. They gave into the smaller things and it snowballed into sex. Now what? WHy didn't they stop while they were ahead at MAYBE just a kiss goodnight or even just holding hands. To late now.

So. This is what I am referring to about LGBT. God said the small things can add up and put more pressure on people. LGBT started out tiny, and has grown. Its pushed its weird around and now we are almost used to it be part of every day life. In our news, in our movies, in everything. Laws have even changed. And now they are pushing in for our kids. At school they are now being taught LGBT is normal. They are taught you can be whatever you want to be. They are taught you can't say "I like that girl over there!" because you are assuming her identity.

And now its moving into kids movies. Just like with everything else VERY tiny so we fluff it off as no big deal. It was just a 2 second scene and you couldn't really tell! Then its characters around a town in a next movie who hug their "partner" (Actually it happened in a kids movie already). Then its a "animal Disney" movie where the male deer struggles between choosing a female deer who likes him or the other male deer who he likes more. Then we get to a disney princess movie where there is no man, just another woman she rescues, fights for and in the end they live happily ever after.

Does no one see we are under attack? We have been since the 80s. What will you say when your child comes home from school and has to right a story about a boy who likes another boy because itr was an assignment? "Its ok, its just a story! My son knows boys don't love other boys!". But the world is telling him otherwise. Maybe he will come out as LGBT a few years down the road. What then? Did you protect him enough? Did you teach him good enough?

This topic is making me so sad. Christians excusing sin for various reasons. Ok with what the world keeps pushing uppon them.

 

[snoochface]

We've been under attack since the day Jesus began his ministry and got his first believer. The Bible tells us we will be under constant attack. That's not going away until he comes back and rules the world.

No one is excusing sin. But we are to be IN the world - just not OF the world. This.... this is the world. LGBT is IN the world. We are not to be OF the world. We are not to partake in homosexual behavior. We should be teaching our kids what is sin and what is not sin.

But guess what? Your kids are going to see and experience LGBT issues. They are going to meet LGBT people. Do you want them to go into those situations with no idea of how to interact with them because we're protected them from watching two cartoon characters dancing together, must less anything more explicit? Don't you want your kids to understand that Jesus died for gay people as much as he died for hetero people, and that they should be treated with love and compassion, that they should have Christ reflected to them as much as possible, that they might come to a saving knowledge of our Lord? Or would you rather shield and protect them from cartoons dancing and throw them into the world without any idea of how to minister to LGBT and become a millstone around their necks?

 

[akmom]

Ha, evangelicals (or whatever you want to call them and their historical equivalents) have been doing that since the beginning of time. There are always those people who fixate on one thing and make everything about that one issue. And defeating it.

I kind of shudder when people make broad statements like you have. Where I attend church, which is pretty conservative even for my tastes, no one fixates on homosexuality or posts memes about it or boycotts anything that isn't inherently evil. Everyone with daughters has seen Beauty and the Beast, I believe. But they do boycott gay strip clubs, though they don't make a big scene about it. The fact is, most evangelicals aren't making a big deal about it. But the few who do make a big scene and give the impression that evangelicals have teamed together in some kind of boycott that actually has very low participation. The squeaky wheel is loud. You don't hear the quiet wheels.

People make a lot of generalizations about Christians, based on those few obnoxious ones that no one takes seriously, or some past experience(s) with Christians, and tends to criticize the whole batch for it. Most of the people doing this don't actually attend church. And this matters, because people who attend church can see what is actually happening among Christians who congregate, and it's not an anti-LGBT meme-fest. They're organizing wholesome events for kids, making meals for people in crisis, volunteering with programs for the poor. That's all I ever see my fellow congregants doing.

 

[DZoolander]

mkgal - Nope - haven't seen that movie - although gotta say I'm interested. I know a few people who are similarly programmed.

What's interesting about the movie, is my wife also said there's a scene in the movie where Gaston asks LaFou why he's not married. LaFou then says that "most women find him to be too clingy" or something to that extent.

He doesn't say "Because I'm gay", or "Because I don't like women". He basically says that women generally aren't interested in him. Then there's the 2 second pan across a room full of people dancing. That's all pretty scant evidence of homosexuality IMHO. I feel the same way about the scene in Frozen that has been alluded to. That one I have seen. The shopkeeper says "Hello family". To me, that could also be his brother. When I first saw the movie that's what I thought it was. Not once did I think "that's his husband."

My first exposure to homosexuality was when I was a little kid. My folks used to take us out during the summer to stay at my aunt and uncle's beachside cabin. One year we went for the 4th of July weekend. When the fireworks were going off, I meandered outside and there were two dudes standing on the street full on making out with each other. Deep tongue kissing.

Now *THAT* shocked me...lol

In that context, speculating that the Shopkeeper in Frozen might actually be married to that "family" member hes talking about, or seeing LaFou dancing near some dude after saying that he's only not with a woman "because they find him clingy" - doesn't really ruffle my feathers.

I also don't buy into the slippery slope stuff. "We need to take a stance of absolute no tolerance because if you give an inch it will lead to Armageddon!" It's pretty exactly how the Christian faith treats sexual issues, especially gay issues, like it's the penultimate sin. THAT'S why we need to treat it so much differently! I'm not on board with that - and I'm not going to teach my kids to look at things that way.

 

[DZoolander]

akmom - fair enough

 

[FireDragon76]

There were gay characters on TV going back to the early 70's. Not necessarily as regulars but they appeared occasionally.

 

[snoochface]

I remember All in the Family addressing gays - not in the politically correct way of today, but enough to teach or remind viewers that they exist.

 

[FireDragon76]

I remember All in the Family addressing gays - not in the politically correct way of today, but enough to teach or remind viewers that they exist.

Yeah, I was thinking of that as a few months ago I began to rewatch the series. TV rarely has stuff that's too controversial because it depends on advertising dollars, so it's a good demonstration of where the attitudes of large numbers of people were at the time.

 

[mina]

I think the reaction is overblown. I plan to see the movie. My uber religious friend , who boycotts everything and is terrified of sharia law, went to see this movie and said she kept a sharp eye out for gay men but must have missed it. lol I think if you are going to get in a dither about this in this particular movie then you also need to be outspoken about the candlestick and the feather duster lusting after one another (they aren't married!) and the whole premise of a young girl falling in love with another species that has horns and hooves. I think if you take your kids and they notice and say something then you have a conversation with them about it.

 

[mkgal1]

I realize this topic is a touchy one with the SOP for this forum---but for a topic that Jesus said *nothing* about....the conservative evangelicals have certainly obsessed over this (why doesn't "pride of the flesh" or "divisiveness" get as much air time? Jesus had plenty to say about those issues).

 

[snoochface]

Proverbs lists the things that God hates and calls an abomination - but homosexuality isn't one of them. Hauty eyes, lying, things like that are on the list, but those are less abominable to us than they are to God.