Would You Call That Love?

[Christsfreeservant]

If you were asleep inside a burning building, and I called out to you to wake you from your sleep, and for you to come out from inside that building, in order to save your life, would you call that love? Especially if I ran inside that burning building, risking my own life, to take you with me to a place of safety, and in order to save your life, would you call that love?

If I saw you choking on a piece of food and so I ran over to you to help you get rid of what was blocking your airways, would you call that love? And if you stepped out into a street and I could see that a car was about to run you over, that you could not see, and so I pushed you out of the way, or I pulled you out of its path, would you call that love? I believe you would.

So, why is it that when this is done in a spiritual realm that many, especially many who call themselves Christians, do not consider it love at all? But they think you are being pushy or getting in their face or not minding your own business or that you are being legalistic or hyper religious or negative? Or they think you are just being nosy, bossy, or judgmental, and not loving?

But do you know that to love with the love of God is to do what I have described here, only in a spiritual realm (but in a physical realm, too)? For we who profess faith in Jesus Christ are to be taking the truth of the gospel message to the people of the world, which includes to all who profess faith in Jesus Christ, for not all are saved who give lip service only to God.

And we are also to be those who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness, and who are warning, urging, and exhorting others who profess faith in Jesus Christ against getting trapped in the deceitfulness of sin, and against being deceived by the lies of those who masquerade as servants of righteousness, but inwardly are ferocious wolves out to destroy you.

We are to be those who are calling out to those who are trapped by sin’s deceitfulness, and/or who are following after wolves in sheep’s clothing, and/or who are being deceived by liars and manipulators of truth. And we are to be calling out to them to come out from the world’s system so that they do not share in her (Babylon’s) sins and in her punishment, for her sins are piled high to heaven (see 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Revelation 18:1-5).

And this is love! This is the love that God had/has for us that he sent his Son Jesus Christ to the earth, to take on human form, and ultimately to suffer and to die on a cross in order to free us from our slavery (addiction) to sin so we will now be servants of righteousness in walks of obedience to our Lord and to his commands. And he was willing to be thought evil of, and to have people mock and crucify him, in order that he might free us from sin.

And we who believe in him need to be willing to do the same. For so many people are following after the lies of the enemy, and they are not following after the truth of the gospel of Christ, and many are trapped in sin’s deceitfulness and/or they are followers of man over being followers of God, and are in danger of the fires of hell, as opposed to being promised heaven.

So, we need to be willing to risk our own lives in order to get the truth out to the people, even if they hate and mock and ridicule and even kill us in return. For Jesus said that not everyone who says to him, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING the will of God the Father who is in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23; cf. Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-6).

And he said that if anyone would come after him, he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin) and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives. But if for Jesus’ sake we deny self, die daily to sin, and follow him in obedience, then we have eternal life. But if we deny him in this life, he will disown us when he returns for his bride (Luke 9:23-26; cf. Romans 8:1-14; 1 Peter 2:24; Titus 2:11-14).

And, yes, this is what it means to love, to tell people the truth that can save their souls from hell, and that can give them salvation from sin and true hope of spending eternity with God in heaven. And that is not promised on the basis of giving lip service only to the Lord. We must deny self, die daily to sin, and follow him in obedience, by his grace, in his power and strength.

 

[childeye 2]

If you were asleep inside a burning building, and I called out to you to wake you from your sleep, and for you to come out from inside that building, in order to save your life, would you call that love? Especially if I ran inside that burning building, risking my own life, to take you with me to a place of safety, and in order to save your life, would you call that love?

If I saw you choking on a piece of food and so I ran over to you to help you get rid of what was blocking your airways, would you call that love? And if you stepped out into a street and I could see that a car was about to run you over, that you could not see, and so I pushed you out of the way, or I pulled you out of its path, would you call that love? I believe you would.

So, why is it that when this is done in a spiritual realm that many, especially many who call themselves Christians, do not consider it love at all? But they think you are being pushy or getting in their face or not minding your own business or that you are being legalistic or hyper religious or negative? Or they think you are just being nosy, bossy, or judgmental, and not loving?

But do you know that to love with the love of God is to do what I have described here, only in a spiritual realm (but in a physical realm, too)? For we who profess faith in Jesus Christ are to be taking the truth of the gospel message to the people of the world, which includes to all who profess faith in Jesus Christ, for not all are saved who give lip service only to God.

And we are also to be those who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness, and who are warning, urging, and exhorting others who profess faith in Jesus Christ against getting trapped in the deceitfulness of sin, and against being deceived by the lies of those who masquerade as servants of righteousness, but inwardly are ferocious wolves out to destroy you.

We are to be those who are calling out to those who are trapped by sin’s deceitfulness, and/or who are following after wolves in sheep’s clothing, and/or who are being deceived by liars and manipulators of truth. And we are to be calling out to them to come out from the world’s system so that they do not share in her (Babylon’s) sins and in her punishment, for her sins are piled high to heaven (see 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Revelation 18:1-5).

And this is love! This is the love that God had/has for us that he sent his Son Jesus Christ to the earth, to take on human form, and ultimately to suffer and to die on a cross in order to free us from our slavery (addiction) to sin so we will now be servants of righteousness in walks of obedience to our Lord and to his commands. And he was willing to be thought evil of, and to have people mock and crucify him, in order that he might free us from sin.

And we who believe in him need to be willing to do the same. For so many people are following after the lies of the enemy, and they are not following after the truth of the gospel of Christ, and many are trapped in sin’s deceitfulness and/or they are followers of man over being followers of God, and are in danger of the fires of hell, as opposed to being promised heaven.

So, we need to be willing to risk our own lives in order to get the truth out to the people, even if they hate and mock and ridicule and even kill us in return. For Jesus said that not everyone who says to him, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING the will of God the Father who is in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23; cf. Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-6).

And he said that if anyone would come after him, he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin) and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives. But if for Jesus’ sake we deny self, die daily to sin, and follow him in obedience, then we have eternal life. But if we deny him in this life, he will disown us when he returns for his bride (Luke 9:23-26; cf. Romans 8:1-14; 1 Peter 2:24; Titus 2:11-14).

And, yes, this is what it means to love, to tell people the truth that can save their souls from hell, and that can give them salvation from sin and true hope of spending eternity with God in heaven. And that is not promised on the basis of giving lip service only to the Lord. We must deny self, die daily to sin, and follow him in obedience, by his grace, in his power and strength.

In my experience, it seems to me that the semantics of this subject matter will turn depending on one's theology of "free will", and how when it's applied as an equivocation it can cause confusion through misunderstanding. If I may elaborate upon that:

Your op brings to mind the scenario of seeing someone in this life on earth doing what ultimately will be detrimental to their own well-being, and for society as a whole. The desire to say something to them is contrasted against how such an action will be received; Some people will see it as a warning formed out of self-righteous judgment rather than loving/caring, and it's this type of thought process where I can see that misunderstandings can occur. To parse the semantics, I point out to people that I could have said nothing, but then when I see them in heaven, I will feel ashamed trying to explain why I was more afraid of being seen as self-righteous. People seem to understand that, and it clears the air.

So, based on that reasoning, I feel that I can safely say that speaking personally to one's detrimental behavior towards them-selves will qualify as caring about them more than my own self-image. The problem is that I don't think it's as simple as informing them that their behavior is not good for them if they can't even help it due to weakness in the flesh. This should be factored in, for even scripture says that Jesus came to do what the law could not do due to weakness of the flesh. Therefore, I believe it's counter-productive to the Spirit of Christ to project a belief that anyone can stop sinning at their own discretion at any time, and I can also see how such a belief will promote a spirit of condemnation so strict in its definition of righteousness that it restricts grace, mercy and understanding. I feel as a Christian that our conversation should reflect a distinction wherein people are not counted as sinful according to their own choices/decisions, but rather that the flesh is what is sinful.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Direct Approach is sometimes embarrassing and devastating, as YHVH Directs:

"Hold this man's conduct up to public scrutiny. Let him defend it if he can! But if he can't, then out with him! It will be totally devastating to him, of course, and embarrassing to you. But better devastation and embarrassment than damnation.

You want him on his feet and forgiven before the Master on the Day of Judgment."

Not following you, sorry. Please explain.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

In my experience, it seems to me that the semantics of this subject matter will turn depending on one's theology of "free will", and how when it's applied as an equivocation it can cause confusion through misunderstanding. If I may elaborate upon that:

Your op brings to mind the scenario of seeing someone in this life on earth doing what ultimately will be detrimental to their own well-being, and for society as a whole. The desire to say something to them is contrasted against how such an action will be received; Some people will see it as a warning formed out of self-righteous judgment rather than loving/caring, and it's this type of thought process where I can see that misunderstandings can occur. To parse the semantics, I point out to people that I could have said nothing, but then when I see them in heaven, I will feel ashamed trying to explain why I was more afraid of being seen as self-righteous. People seem to understand that, and it clears the air.

So, based on that reasoning, I feel that I can safely say that speaking personally to one's detrimental behavior towards them-selves will qualify as caring about them more than my own self-image. The problem is that I don't think it's as simple as informing them that their behavior is not good for them if they can't even help it due to weakness in the flesh. This should be factored in, for even scripture says that Jesus came to do what the law could not do due to weakness of the flesh. Therefore, I believe it's counter-productive to the Spirit of Christ to project a belief that anyone can stop sinning at their own discretion at any time, and I can also see how such a belief will promote a spirit of condemnation so strict in its definition of righteousness that it restricts grace, mercy and understanding. I feel as a Christian that our conversation should reflect a distinction wherein people are not counted as sinful according to their own choices/decisions, but rather that the flesh is what is sinful.

Not what the Scriptures teach. They teach we are without excuse and we are fully responsible for the choices we make. So if sin is what we practice, and not righteousness and holiness and obedience to Christ then we do not have eternal life with God.

 

[childeye 2]

Not what the Scriptures teach. They teach we are without excuse and we are fully responsible for the choices we make. So if sin is what we practice, and not righteousness and holiness and obedience to Christ then we do not have eternal life with God.

Are you referring to Romans 1:20?

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

If so, it's understandable how some people with a "free will" theology (wherein the term is applied as an equivocation), might take the above verse to mean there is no excuse for sin. But for those of us who reason upon the "free will" theology expressing the need to be reborn of the Holy Spirit to be set free, (which is not an equivocation), the verse is actually saying that there is no excuse for not acknowledging God as the Eternal power and thereby indicating there is no excuse for not acknowledging God's Spirit as the only righteousness in mankind. Hence, we see Paul, who as Saul, and who thinking he was serving God had first persecuted the Christ through unbelief, but afterwards displayed sincere thankfulness to God for the revelation of the Christ, not by preaching the law, but by fervently preaching the power of the cross as a revelation from God able to bestow righteousness by grace through faith in Christ as the True Image of God.

I believe that practicing righteousness includes practicing grace, mercy and understanding, considering the disability and condition of the carnal mind which can only be transformed through the work of the Holy Spirit Who guides us in the Truth, even convicting us of sin. For Jesus teaches that we will be judged by what measure we judge others and accordingly the merciful will receive mercy. It would therefore be error to undermine the Christs' teaching, that sin is akin to an affliction that needs a physician, by insisting that sin as well as righteousness manifest through voluntary decisions. Because of this disability to see sin as a sickness and show compassion, the Pharisees erred in a hypocritical judgment unaware even of their own blindness to the knowledge of God revealed in the Christ. And this brings to mind Romans 2:1, which concludes the intended sentiments of Romans 1 by stating, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Relevant scripture:
Matthew 9: 11-12, And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

John 16: 7-13
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

At times, a strong hand/ rebuke/ disfellowship is necessary as written in God's Instructions.
Here is another translation of the same passage, more fully.

"1 Corinthians 5​

J.B. Phillips New Testament​

A horrible sin and a stern remedy​

" It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and immorality of a kind that even pagans condemn—a man has apparently taken his father’s wife! Are you still proud of your church? Shouldn’t you be overwhelmed with sorrow and shame? The man who has done such a thing should certainly be expelled from your fellowship!
3-5 I know I am not with you physically but I am with you in spirit, and I assure you as solemnly as if I were actually present before your assembly that I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done this thing, and I do this with full divine authority. My judgment is this: that the man should be left to the mercy of Satan so that while his body will experience the destructive powers of sin his spirit may yet be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6-8 Your pride in your church is lamentably out of place. Don’t you know how a little yeast can permeate the whole lump? Clear out every bit of the old yeast that you may be new unleavened bread!

We Christians have had a Passover lamb sacrificed for us—none other than Christ himself!

So let us “keep the feast” with no trace of the yeast of the old life,
nor the yeast of vice and wickedness,

but with the unleavened bread of unadulterated truth!"

Thank you.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Are you referring to Romans 1:20?

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

If so, it's understandable how some people with a "free will" theology (wherein the term is applied as an equivocation), might take the above verse to mean there is no excuse for sin. But for those of us who reason upon the "free will" theology (the need to be reborn of the Holy Spirit to be set free) which is not an equivocation, the verse is actually saying that there is no excuse for not acknowledging God as the Eternal power. Hence Paul, who as Saul, had once persecuted Christ through unbelief, afterwards displayed sincere thankfulness for the revelation of the Christ, and fervently preached the power of the cross as a revelation.

I believe that practicing righteousness includes practicing grace, mercy and understanding, considering the disability and condition of the carnal mind. And it would be error to undermine the Christs' teaching, that sin is akin to an affliction that needs a physician, by insisting that sin is voluntary. Because of this disability to see sin as a sickness and show compassion, the Pharisees erred in a hypocritical judgment unaware even of their own blindness. And this brings to mind Romans 2:1, which concludes the sentiments of Romans 1 by stating, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Relevant scripture:
Matthew 9: 11-12, And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Yes, Romans 1 plus all of these: [Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-11; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:23-31; 1 Co 10:1-22; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

 

[childeye 2]

Yes, Romans 1 plus all of these: [Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-11; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:23-31; 1 Co 10:1-22; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

The issue I am addressing is whether an act of sin is voluntary or whether sin manifests through a deception, a lie posing as the Truth. Romans 1 clearly indicates the commonsense knowledge that it's wrong to suppress the Truth, and this necessarily includes the truth that sin comes through first believing something that is untrue. I consider the prodigal son to be the perfect analogy to represent what I am saying.

In my experience sin comes through imaginings that in reality are false hopes that ultimately end up empty and void of anything meaningful as pertains to the Eternal and to everlasting things. Moreover, I believe we are utterly deceived by the devil into trading away virtue for vice. Under such a deception one who is deceived would be seeing something as a positive when in reality it is a negative.

I therefore believe that I must pick up my own cross forgiving others who sin against me so as to follow Christ who suffered so that sins could be forgiven. In this way, I not only acknowledge my own weakness to deception through showing forbearance and patience towards others in their weakness, but I also love others as I would want to be loved when I was weak and without strength. A wanton ignorance would therefore be a different matter which would be relevant to what I sense you may be referring to.

For I sense your intention is to address any teaching that could be perceived as mistaking the cause for grace as a license to sin. I don't disagree with that posture in the case of a wanton ignorance. My intention here is to parse the semantics so as not to mistake the cause for mercy and understanding, forgiveness, forbearance, and longsuffering, with giving license to sin.

Romans 5:1-10
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[childeye 2]

childeye 2 said:
I feel as a Christian that our conversation should reflect a distinction wherein people are not counted as sinful according to their own choices/decisions, but rather that the flesh is what is sinful.

Christsfreeservant said:
Not what the Scriptures teach. They teach we are without excuse and we are fully responsible for the choices we make. So if sin is what we practice, and not righteousness and holiness and obedience to Christ then we do not have eternal life with God.

Your response causes me to think you misunderstood what I said. I'm saying that we don't actually volunteer to be righteous or sinful any more than we volunteered to be made of both flesh and Spirit. That is, I realize we must serve either the flesh or the Spirit as a matter of circumstance, but I do not want to project nor be perceived as believing that I choose to manifest God's Spirit and the fruits thereof according to my own volition, 2 Corinthians 4:7.

Please note below that scripture teaches, (1) that the flesh is sinful, but the Spirit of God in mankind is righteous, and due to this circumstance, we will ultimately be subject to one or the other. (2) That the Christ is a quickening Spirit that is a gift from God, making alive by grace through faith that which was once dead in sins.

Galatians 5:17-24

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Ephesians 2:1-10
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.