Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

[RDKirk]

I have a question related to the OP:

I'm aware the OT does mention little of the afterlife, but did the Hebrews pass anything orally or anything not in the OT on about the afterlife?

Yes. That's why we see in the New Testament that Pharisees believed in an afterlife but Sadducees did not. That disagreement was raised several times in the gospels and Acts.

 

[hedrick]

Yes. That's why we see in the New Testament that Pharisees believed in an afterlife but Sadducees did not. That disagreement was raised several times in the gospels and Acts.

I agree. But the ideas probably developed in the period after the OT.

 

[dms1972]

I decided to reword this.

The Old Testament has very little to say about what happens in the afterlife. Yet throughout the OT many worshipped and served God, even to the point of execution. So hypothetically speaking if heaven and hell were put aside, would you still follow Jesus?

Answers could be something like "no way, I'm just in this because I don't want to fry" or "yes I would continue to follow Jesus no matter what" to "as long as the church serves coffee and doughnuts, I'm in"

Have never been to a church that served coffee and doughnuts myself. I think refreshments are ok occasionally as long as they keep them till after the meeting I don't mind, dislike it when they are having them beforehand.

I would say that as a child I was somewhat concerned about where I would be if I died suddenly, or rather - concerned about whether i'd be in hell (or how I kind of imagined hell). Most of us hear about heaven and hell at some point and Jesus himself did speak of both. It's interesting because I was reading briefly about Karl Barth's views on this topic and I read he didn't believe in an "afterlife" but he meant in the pagan sense. Modernist theology (eg Bultmann) is often agnostic on the topic. Barth is not that easy to understand in what he does believe about it. I'd sooner read CS Lewis's thoughts on it than try and get my head round Barth's. Barth is right however to differentiate the christian from the pagan understanding.

Because many non-christians now are more secular than pagan we might forget many pagans of the past had a conception of an afterlife eg Elsysium (which was depicted in the film Gladiator) and Hades. Sometimes it was linked to an honorable death, eg in battle. But some of the pagan conceptions of it have crept into christian thought and so we need to get back to the New Testament on it.

 

[hedrick]

But some of the pagan conceptions of it have crept into christian thought and so we need to get back to the New Testament on it.

That's a good idea in principle, but the NT statements allow multiple interpretations. Although most CF readers won't agree, I think that's because the NT writers didn't have any one, specific view of what would happen. As a result it's very easy to find apparent support for lots of views, certainly including the traditional Christian one. I'm afraid saying "back to the NT" won't solve much in that situation.

 

[Lion IRC]

...hypothetically speaking if heaven and hell were put aside, would you still follow Jesus?
...Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

Would I be a vegetarian if meat didn't exist?
Can I be a married bachelor?
Is non-stamp collecting a hobby?

 

[Job3315]

I decided to reword this.

The Old Testament has very little to say about what happens in the afterlife. Yet throughout the OT many worshipped and served God, even to the point of execution. So hypothetically speaking if heaven and hell were put aside, would you still follow Jesus?

Answers could be something like "no way, I'm just in this because I don't want to fry" or "yes I would continue to follow Jesus no matter what" to "as long as the church serves coffee and doughnuts, I'm in"

What a great question! I love questions that make me think deeply. I read this yesterday and I thought about my answer. I came to the conclusion that I would still be a Christian because Christianity is about doing the right thing. We sinned against God. Eternal life is a fruit, a consequence of admitting our wrongdoings. We get to ask for forgiveness to make things right. Having a chance to admit we did wrong and receive and accept His forgiveness is a gift and an honor we get to experience here on earth.

 

[Lg2000]

No way. christianity isn't christianity without an afterlife and no promise to be with God in the afterlife. Therefore it would be worthless.
If I wanted to be a good person by the worlds standards I could do that without faith(personally I probably couldn't ).

 

[Jamdoc]

Yes, because the way of life that Jesus taught is the right way to live.

God doesn't just tell you to love your neighbor and love God though, there are some people God says "be steadfast in the faith unto death" That is, literally lose your head for what you believe.
Would you die for Jesus if there were no final judgement, and no resurrection, just you stop existing when your head rolls?

Christian doesn't just mean have good morals.

 

[dms1972]

That's a good idea in principle, but the NT statements allow multiple interpretations. Although most CF readers won't agree, I think that's because the NT writers didn't have any one, specific view of what would happen. As a result it's very easy to find apparent support for lots of views, certainly including the traditional Christian one. I'm afraid saying "back to the NT" won't solve much in that situation.

A return to the NT and the Bible is the best option even if there still remains some disagreement over interpretation, what are the alternatives? If interpreters humbly and prayfully seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and to be kept from error and try to understand each other it should be possible to form an outline of a Biblical view within the boundaries of which some disagreement could be tolerated.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It would be a totally different religion with a totally different ethos. To do away with the resurrection and hope after life, what would that make Christianity? It would deprive Christianity of it's central claim that death can be defeated and thus as a religion what then does it offer? A way of life? A philosophy?

I don't know what I would be in such a hypothetical world but such a Christianity would seem to lose all of it's power and promise. Christianity reduced merely to it's moral teaching without any metaphysical implications makes it no better than any other ancient philosophy.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I decided to reword this.

The Old Testament has very little to say about what happens in the afterlife. Yet throughout the OT many worshipped and served God, even to the point of execution. So hypothetically speaking if heaven and hell were put aside, would you still follow Jesus?

Answers could be something like "no way, I'm just in this because I don't want to fry" or "yes I would continue to follow Jesus no matter what" to "as long as the church serves coffee and doughnuts, I'm in"

The answer is yes, but Christianity without an afterlife basically ends up as a theologically based Existentialism / Stoicism, or maybe even Judeo-Christian Confucianism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I decided to reword this.

The Old Testament has very little to say about what happens in the afterlife. Yet throughout the OT many worshipped and served God, even to the point of execution. So hypothetically speaking if heaven and hell were put aside, would you still follow Jesus?

Answers could be something like "no way, I'm just in this because I don't want to fry" or "yes I would continue to follow Jesus no matter what" to "as long as the church serves coffee and doughnuts, I'm in"

If there is no resurrection of the dead, if there is no healing and redemption for the world, then Christianity is meaningless. As St. Paul says, if there is no resurrection of the dead, that means Christ isn't risen, and if Christ isn't risen then we are a pitiable people with a false faith and worthless religion.

So from that vantage point, no. If death is the end, if literally everything Christianity is about is false, then there's no reason for anyone to be a Christian. Because that would make Christianity objectively wrong.

It would mean that Jesus is a dead, failed messiah. And at the very best it could be said that Jesus was a martyr who had some really good things to say.

Christianity is not special because of its moral teachings--you don't need to be a Christian to hear the Law preached. One can hear matters of the Law in many religious traditions and diverse moral philosophies. So there isn't anything particularly special about Christianity if Christianity is reduced to nothing more than a moral philosophy.

What makes Christianity Christianity is the Gospel, not the Law. Without the Gospel there is no Christianity.

As Jaroslav Pelikan once said, "If Christ is risen, nothing else matters. And if Christ is not risen--then nothing else matters."

Now, on the other hand, the point of Christianity isn't "to get to heaven" or to "avoid the hot place". So the criticism of a Christianity conceived in a framework of cosmic reward and punishment is deeply problematic and fundamentally erroneous.

But it really does need to be stressed that the Christian hope of bodily resurrection and the healing and renewal of all creation is essential. Christianity is meaningless without resurrection and the victory of life over death.


-CryptoLutheran

 

[dms1972]

The answer is yes, but Christianity without an afterlife basically ends up as a theologically based Existentialism / Stoicism...

That is pretty much what Bultmann ended up with - religious existentialism. I have not read enough of Kierkegarrd to be sure of his thinking on it - the issue with him is he tends somewhat towards religious individualism.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No, it doesn't. For instance under the law of Moses, a Jew could not be held indebted or enslaved for more than seven years. And every fifty years, all land would revert to the original owners, so nobody could build generational wealth by exploiting other Jews. Jews in Israel under the Mosaic Law had very specific promises for life that Christians have never been given.

Ok, I guess I get your point. You and I have been talking past each other. Sorry about that.

 

[dms1972]

CS Lewis said that for him, heaven or hell didn't come into it on his adult / re-conversion to christianity. He pretty much had believed in heaven and hell for a while when at boarding school, before he drifted into his pagan/atheistic phase, but he wasn't motivated on those lines when he returned to christianity, he was obeying his conscience before he came back to theism and later to christianity. That said Lewis was not a liberal, without question he came to believe in both heaven and hell and write about them (see for instance - The Great Divorce, and The Problem of Pain).

 

[Guojing]

I hope we are not 'talking past each other' here. But Romans 9 says, "..not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring." When he says, "...and so all Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:26) he is talking about the Church, the Body of Christ, ALL of the Elect --not just Jews.

National Israel of the Old Testament no doubt had advantages over the other nations, but none that I know of exceed the blessings the Gentile believers enjoy now.

Yes, spiritual blessings far exceed any physical blessings. Jesus made that clear to the nation Israel in John 6

24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.

25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

This is something I wish Word of Faith churches would teach their congregation.

 

[Guojing]

I know about those promises. Israel, as a nation did receive certain promises other nations did not. I don't think that is what we are talking about though.

Still, if we as individuals belong to Christ, obedience still produces the same rewards Israel was promised as individuals.

The point I was making is, the nation Israel was promised physical blessings, of health and wealth, for obeying their covenant of Law set in Mount Sinai.

We are not under that covenant, we are in the Body of Christ by 1 Cor 15:1-4, and we enjoy the spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3). We are not promised those same physical blessings that Israel was promised.

 

[ozso]

Would I be a vegetarian if meat didn't exist?
Can I be a married bachelor?
Is non-stamp collecting a hobby?

Being a Christian is about life here on earth. Most of the NT is about our time on earth and what we do with it for God.

 

[RDKirk]

That's a good idea in principle, but the NT statements allow multiple interpretations. Although most CF readers won't agree, I think that's because the NT writers didn't have any one, specific view of what would happen. As a result it's very easy to find apparent support for lots of views, certainly including the traditional Christian one. I'm afraid saying "back to the NT" won't solve much in that situation.

There isn't much in specific in the scripture. A lot of things have been made up that people have now accepted as "gospel," but the most solid information from the gospel is, "It's better than you'll ever imagine." So everything that has been imagined...is wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

The answer is yes, but Christianity without an afterlife basically ends up as a theologically based Existentialism / Stoicism, or maybe even Judeo-Christian Confucianism.

Yes, I've said that earlier.