Would you be a Christian if there was no afterlife?

[Saint Steven]

if there was no afterlife there'd be no need for Jesus to die on the cross.

Absent Him dying on the cross, there is no Christianity. If I just want to be nice and obey some rules, I'd join the Boy Scouts.

But where do the Boy Scout rules come from? Are they not based on Christianity?

 

[Saint Steven]

If there was no afterlife, what would be the point of living in any particular way? Mother Theresa's end would be just the same as Hitler's. Without an afterlife and the ultimate justice, punishment or reward that is a vital part of it, a deeply selfish, wicked life has the exact same conclusion as a self-sacrificing, moral life. Why, then, not live however you please, maximizing your own pleasure as much as you possibly can?

Does that work?
Does living a self-centered life give you a better life?

 

[Strong in Him]

As to your first paragraph, we are approaching the subject as if there is no afterlife. So none of that applies. The question is whether we would still be a Christian if there was no afterlife. It does no good to negate the question on the basis of reality.

I know.
I'm saying that without an afterlife, Jesus would not be who he said that he was; no afterlife means that he lied when he said that there were many mansions in his Father's house, the story of Abraham and Lazarus was a lie, as was the teaching about the sheep and the goats and all his words about eternal life.
And if Jesus lied about all, or any, of those things; how can we believe him?

Is life better when we put others first? Is life better when we help the less fortunate? Is life better when we seek God for help? Is life better when we are directed by God? None of these things require a resurrection, nor an afterlife.

None of those require even a belief in God. Humanists can do good things, guided by a sense of compassion for others.

 

[RDKirk]

But where do the Boy Scout rules come from? Are they not based on Christianity?

No. They are based on spirituality. A Buddhist or Hindu can be a Boy Scout.

There were God-followers before there was a Church. A God-follower is not a Christ-follower. Jesus did not come to earth to create more God-followers.

The essential difference is not even salvation, as the God-follower prior to Jesus are also saved.

The essential difference in being a Christian rather than a God-follower is to take part in the specific mission given to the Body of Christ.

 

[Saint Steven]

Probably not. Fear of hell is what brought me to Christ. I only started growing in His love later. Nice thread.

Was the fear of hell necessary to bring you to Christ?

 

[Saint Steven]

None of those require even a belief in God. Humanists can do good things, guided by a sense of compassion for others.

Sure, but what is the source of these things? And will God reward those who live this way? (Romans 2:14-15)

Saint Steven said: ↑
Is life better when we put others first? Is life better when we help the less fortunate? Is life better when we seek God for help? Is life better when we are directed by God? None of these things require a resurrection, nor an afterlife.

 

[Saint Steven]

No. They are based on spirituality. A Buddhist or Hindu can be a Boy Scout.

There were God-followers before there was a Church. A God-follower is not a Christ-follower. Jesus did not come to earth to create more God-followers.

The essential difference is not even salvation, as the God-follower prior to Jesus are also saved.

The essential difference in being a Christian rather than a God-follower is to take part in the specific mission given to the Body of Christ.

What is your answer to the topic question then?

 

[Saint Steven]

@MMXX

In reality, none of us has any concrete proof that there is an afterlife. We take it on faith.

Therefore, we should all live as if there is no afterlife. But not in the sense that what we do doesn't matter. Rather in the sense that what we do is ALL that matters.

 

[RDKirk]

What is your answer to the topic question then?

I've given it earlier, and I gave it in that post.

Being a God-follower--living a life according to the precepts of God--did not require Christ.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. -- John 3

The explicit purpose of Christ is for salvation into the afterlife. The mission explicitly given to the Body of Christ is to preach the gospel of salvation into that afterlife. The apostle Paul explicitly stated that if there is no afterlife, there is no purpose to the gospel.

If there were no afterlife, if Jesus were merely a prophet who died and was now "sleeping with the fathers," there might still be people living by the precepts of God...but there would not be Christianity.

 

[Saint Steven]

I've given it earlier, and I gave it in that post.

Being a God-follower--living a life according to the precepts of God--did not require Christ.

You seem to be claiming that all the world religions have the same God.

 

[RDKirk]

@MMXX

In reality, none of us has any concrete proof that there is an afterlife. We take it on faith.

Therefore, we should all live as if there is no afterlife. But not in the sense that what we do doesn't matter. Rather in the sense that what we do is ALL that matters.

We have the same "proof" of an afterlife that we have of a God. Does that mean we live as though there were no God?

 

[RDKirk]

You seem to be claiming that all the world religions have the same God.

Nope. You know what a Christian means by capitalizing God. And I'm sure you know that the term "God-follower" is used in the New Testament and what it means there.

 

[Saint Steven]

We have the same "proof" of an afterlife that we have of a God. Does that mean we live as though there were no God?

That's another topic.
Do you gather that I am promoting living as if there is no God?
Sorry if you got that impression. Certainly not my intent.

Saint Steven said: ↑
@MMXX

In reality, none of us has any concrete proof that there is an afterlife. We take it on faith.

Therefore, we should all live as if there is no afterlife. But not in the sense that what we do doesn't matter. Rather in the sense that what we do is ALL that matters.

 

[Saint Steven]

Nope. You know what a Christian means by capitalizing God. And I'm sure you know that the term "God-follower" is used in the New Testament and what it means there.

Oh, I see now. (having re-read your earlier post) You are distinguishing between "God-followers" and "Christ-followers".

I've given it earlier, and I gave it in that post.

Being a God-follower--living a life according to the precepts of God--did not require Christ.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. -- John 3

The explicit purpose of Christ is for salvation into the afterlife. The mission explicitly given to the Body of Christ is to preach the gospel of salvation into that afterlife. The apostle Paul explicitly stated that if there is no afterlife, there is no purpose to the gospel.

If there were no afterlife, if Jesus were merely a prophet who died and was now "sleeping with the fathers," there might still be people living by the precepts of God...but there would not be Christianity.

I apologize. I am still not clear on your answer to the topic question. You seem to be nullifying the question to avoid answering it. Is that correct?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What is your answer to the topic question then?

 

[RDKirk]

Oh, I see now. (having re-read your earlier post) You are distinguishing between "God-followers" and "Christ-followers".

I apologize. I am still not clear on your answer to the topic question. You seem to be nullifying the question to avoid answering it. Is that correct?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What is your answer to the topic question then?

The question is self-nullifying. It's like asking, "Would you still be a citizen of the USA if the British colonials had never rebelled?"

The apostle Paul has already answered the question.

 

[Saint Steven]

He never used even once the favorite phrase used by word of faith preachers, “by Jesus stripes You are healed!”

Interesting. I was just thinking about that this week. It's an OT quote. What did the Prophet mean when he said it. As you indicate, it probably has nothing to do with physical healing. However, it is common in the NT texts to misappropriate, and even misquote, an OT text to make a NT declaration.

 

[Saint Steven]

The question is self-nullifying. It's like asking, "Would you still be a citizen of the USA if the British colonials had never rebelled?"

The apostle Paul has already answered the question.

So, you are claiming that Christianity is predicated on an afterlife? No afterlife = no Christianity.

 

[aiki]

Does that work?
Does living a self-centered life give you a better life?

My answer depends on what you mean by "work" and what, exactly, you think is worth working for.

Hitler's view of what was worth working for and the means that "worked" to achieve it differed widely from Mother Theresa's view of the same. Regardless, the conclusion of their lives differs not at all, if there is no afterlife.

Stalin was above any human organ of justice while he lived, murdering millions in service to himself. And if there is no hereafter, he escaped any divine, final justice, too. He - and any untouchable murderous despot like him - has nothing to fear from a life of terrible evil except that it will end.

What of the child born into poverty, abandoned by her family, living in filthy, disease-ridden circumstances, starving and dying before she reaches eight years of age? If there is no heaven to gain and hell to shun, what does one say about her life? It was a complete misery, unrelieved by future heavenly prospects. What sort of God would create such a life? What of the infant who dies of cancer before it is 6 months old? What purpose did its life serve? What do we make of a God who would create such a person who could not know Him in life and will not know Him in death?

1 Corinthians 15:13-19
13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

 

[Strong in Him]

Sure, but what is the source of these things? And will God reward those who live this way? (Romans 2:14-15)

As Christians, we do good things because we want to serve Jesus, whom we love and trust and who is our Lord and Saviour.
But if there is no after life then Jesus was lying when he spoke of one, and if he was not raised from the dead then he was lying when he said he would be.
The transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared, was also a lie - therefore Jesus cannot be trusted. So why follow him?

 

[ozso]

As Christians, we do good things because we want to serve Jesus, whom we love and trust and who is our Lord and Saviour.
But if there is no after life then Jesus was lying when he spoke of one, and if he was not raised from the dead then he was lying when he said he would be.
The transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah appeared, was also a lie - therefore Jesus cannot be trusted. So why follow him?

The question is hypothetical, but not in the sense of what if you found out there was no afterlife after all, but rather more like what if it hadn't been mentioned in the New Testament, the same as it pretty much wasn't mentioned in the Old Testament. Moses served God, and wrote the Law on how Israel was to serve and obey God, but never wrote anything about an afterlife.