Would you agree with creationists even if (hypothetically) all the bible was true?

[perplexed]

I an angel appeared and said everything in the Bible was true I would assume that I had gone insane. Once I had gotten over this I would still disagree with creationists because their arguments seem rather flawed. The universe appears old it does not appear young, If it was made 6000 years ago it was created old and the magic god used to make the flood waters disappear and scatter humanity during the babel debacle made it appear older still further. Saying the universe appears young is just plain silly no matter what you think about biblical infaliabillity.

 

[Atheuz]

I wouldn't agree even if I was pronounced the son of God, God himself showed himself before me, Jesus told me who wrote the Bible and was shown irrefuteable evidence.

I refuse to worship a God who is a deceptive, murderous and vengeful child or believe anything he told me to. I'd rather end up in hell than worship him or believe any of the Bible - Because I really can't believe or worship a God that performed so many cruelties in the OT.

 

[Mumbo]

I'm guessing that I'll be in the minority here, but if the Bible could be proven to be entirely true, I'd switch to creationism in an instant. Proving it is the tricky part, though. I'd agree that an angel giving me the down-low wouldn't be enough; I'd be more likely to doubt my mental stability than to believe a winged servant of God staring me in the face. If he proved my sanity and his authenticity as a bonus, though, I wouldn't have any excuses. A few more eyewitnesses and some bonafide miracles would probably do the trick. Still, I'm harder to convince than most. :]

 

[perplexed]

I would also be appalled if the Bible would be true. Making hell is an evil act and I don't understand people who are O.K. with it. But that really doesn't have anything to do with the creation/evolution debate. My point is that creationists would be wrong even if the bible is right.

 

[perplexed]

I'm guessing that I'll be in the minority here, but if the Bible could be proven to be entirely true, I'd switch to creationism in an instant. Proving it is the tricky part, though. I'd agree that an angel giving me the down-low wouldn't be enough; I'd be more likely to doubt my mental stability than to believe a winged servant of God staring me in the face. If he proved my sanity and his authenticity as a bonus, though, I wouldn't have any excuses. A few more eyewitnesses and some bonafide miracles would probably do the trick. Still, I'm harder to convince than most. :]

So you would actually say that the universe appears 6000 years old or would say it was created with the appearance of being billions of years old?

 

[Mumbo]

So you would actually say that the universe appears 6000 years old or would say it was created with the appearance of being billions of years old?

That depends on what the heavenly authority tells me. If it doesn't offer an explanation, I'd probably just make up my own answer and let the matter slilde. No reason to lose sleep over it if the Bible is 100% true, yes?

Personally, I prefer the second explanation. Both options make God seem deceptive, but I'm sure that He has reasons for everything.

 

[Atheuz]

My point is that creationists would be wrong even if the bible is right.

Yes, I don't think God would be deceptive if he is as loving and allpowerful as he claims and thus Creationism would be wrong, atleast for me.

 

[Mumbo]

Yes, I don't think God would be deceptive if he is as loving and allpowerful as he claims and thus Creationism would be wrong, atleast for me.

If the Bible is absolutely true, God is undeniably all-powerful and loving, despite any perceived contradictions. Sorry.

 

[Atheuz]

If the Bible is absolutely true, God is undeniably all-powerful and loving, despite any perceived contradictions. Sorry.

Bah I won't bother having this discussion. I have made my point and why I would never even consider Creationism. We have two different perceptions of "true" it seems.

 

[Phred]

Then you die and that angel turns out to have been Satan... (Hey, if we're playing "what if") No... the only way to show that something is valid is to have evidence that corroborates it. The Bible fails miserably.

 

[Mumbo]

Bah I won't bother having this discussion. I have made my point and why I would never even consider Creationism. We have two different perceptions of "true" it seems.

Alright, but I get a parting shot: no offense, but "God is a jerk" is a lousy reason not to believe in Him. It's true that Dawkins likes to toss that argument around, but he uses it to cast doubt upon the accuracy of the Bible, not God's existance directly. Since we're assuming that the Bible is completely true, the argument goes out the window.

Now, if you refuse to worship Him because He does mean things, that's a different matter. I wouldn't attempt it if I were you - I hear that Hell can be pretty nasty - but that's your business, not mine.

 

[Mumbo]

Then you die and that angel turns out to have been Satan... (Hey, if we're playing "what if")

Which is why I insist that the angel provide sufficient proof. For the sake of argument, though, why would Satan go around telling people to worship God? That's just plain counterproductive. One'd think that he would stick to spreading the lie of evilution and planting fossils.

 

[Atheuz]

Alright, but I get a parting shot: no offense, but "God is a jerk" is a lousy reason not to believe in Him. It's true that Dawkins likes to toss that argument around, but he uses it to cast doubt upon the accuracy of the Bible, not God's existance directly. Since we're assuming that the Bible is completely true, the argument goes out the window.

I said, I won't worship him because of that. He's one of the worst examples of an allknowing, allpowerful and allloving gods there is, and no I'm not getting influenced by anything Dawkins has said..

Believing in him is a different matter, sure he's too cruel to be a God is one of the reasons - But there is so much more to it, there is absolutely zero empirical evidence for him and it requires you to turn off your curiousity about life, earth, the universe and just accept "God is there" or "God did it", and it's basically just blind faith.

The main reason is "No evidence for God = God does not exist for me".

Now, if you refuse to worship Him because He does mean things, that's a different matter. I wouldn't attempt it if I were you - I hear that Hell can be pretty nasty - but that's your business, not mine.

God is worse than Satan in the OT and Satan isn't mentioned very many times in the NT. Trust me, I made up my mind - If I knew God existed, there was empirical evidence and proof to support his existence and the existence of something supernatural and I'm forced to take sides between worshipping a vengeful child who killed millions of people and going to Hell - I'm going with the ladder, I really despise the OT God, I really really do and there is nothing that happens in Hell that would EVER change my mind about that.

 

[Mumbo]

Believing in him is a different matter, sure he's too cruel to be a God is one of the reasons - But there is so much more to it, there is absolutely zero empirical evidence for him and it requires you to turn off your curiousity about life, earth, the universe and just accept "God is there" or "God did it", and it's basically just blind faith.

The main reason is "No evidence for God = God does not exist for me".

That's a better reason, yeah.

God is worse than Satan in the OT

Well, with the exception of the snake, I don't believe that Satan is actually in the OT, so it isn't really a contest. Regardless, I get your point.

and Satan isn't mentioned very many times in the NT. Trust me, I made up my mind - If I knew God existed, there was empirical evidence and proof to support his existence and the existence of something supernatural and I'm forced to take sides between worshipping a vengeful child who killed millions of people and going to Hell - I'm going with the ladder, I really despise the OT God, I really really do and there is nothing that happens in Hell that would EVER change my mind about that.

I think you're underestimating the most agonizing punishment imaginable. You'll be praying for forgiveness after just ten minutes in the Celine Dion room!

Seriously, even if worshipping God goes against your principles, it's probably worth a second thought. Pascal's Wager has remained in popular use for good reason, and it becomes even more motivational if God's existance is guaranteed.

 

[Nitron]

I said, I won't worship him because of that. He's one of the worst examples of an allknowing, allpowerful and allloving gods there is, and no I'm not getting influenced by anything Dawkins has said..

Believing in him is a different matter, sure he's too cruel to be a God is one of the reasons - But there is so much more to it, there is absolutely zero empirical evidence for him and it requires you to turn off your curiousity about life, earth, the universe and just accept "God is there" or "God did it", and it's basically just blind faith.

The main reason is "No evidence for God = God does not exist for me".



God is worse than Satan in the OT and Satan isn't mentioned very many times in the NT. Trust me, I made up my mind - If I knew God existed, there was empirical evidence and proof to support his existence and the existence of something supernatural and I'm forced to take sides between worshipping a vengeful child who killed millions of people and going to Hell - I'm going with the ladder, I really despise the OT God, I really really do and there is nothing that happens in Hell that would EVER change my mind about that.

Hell would be a terribly fun place anyway. Einstein, Thomas Edison and Marie Curie would have figured out how the whole lake of fire thing works. Mark Twain would have outwitted Satan and taken his place. Albucasis would give everyone daily surgery after torture. Darwin would evolve docile strains of demons. Then it would turn out that we're all eventually going to heaven thanks to peaceful protest by Gandhi.

 

[Nitron]

Well, with the exception of the snake, I don't believe that Satan is actually in the OT, so it isn't really a contest. Regardless, I get your point.

He pops up in the book of Job.

 

[Mumbo]

He pops up in the book of Job.

Yeah, you're right. I only had the first few books in mind when I said that. :/

 

[vernee]

Hell would be a terribly fun place anyway. Einstein, Thomas Edison and Marie Curie would have figured out how the whole lake of fire thing works. Mark Twain would have outwitted Satan and taken his place. Albucasis would give everyone daily surgery after torture. Darwin would evolve docile strains of demons. Then it would turn out that we're all eventually going to heaven thanks to peaceful protest by Gandhi.

Too bad you end up burning huh? It sounds like some demented amusement park.

Believing in him is a different matter, sure he's too cruel to be a God is one of the reasons - But there is so much more to it, there is absolutely zero empirical evidence for him and it requires you to turn off your curiousity about life, earth, the universe and just accept "God is there" or "God did it", and it's basically just blind faith.

So, YOU are telling ME what I THINK. That I have no curiosity about life, earth, and the universe. In actuality, not everybody accepts "God did it" as a reasonable answer. I know I don't for everything. Some people use God as a scapegoat though.. I do know that God is here though. Please don't post how other people think anymore. Sometimes you get it but other times....

 

[Atheuz]

So, YOU are telling ME what I THINK. That I have no curiosity about life, earth, and the universe. In actuality, not everybody accepts "God did it" as a reasonable answer. I know I don't for everything. Some people use God as a scapegoat though.. I do know that God is here though. Please don't post how other people think anymore. Sometimes you get it but other times....

No, I'm telling my perception of things and how it would be for me - Which is that, because of my personality I would never let that happen.

So you are saying all the incredibly cruel things God did in the OT never happened? How he never flooded the entire world? How he didn't support slavery, rape(and how the victim should be killed along with the rapist), murder and human sacrifice? I'm not using God as a scapegoat for my life and why it is as it is, I love my life and for the love of me some invisible magic being in the sky isn't the reason for that.
And I know he isn't here, who's right?(The Judeo-Christian God and Allah that is, the possibility of other Gods is still there)

 

[vernee]

No, I'm telling my perception of things and how it would be for me - Which is that, because of my personality I would never let that happen.

So you are saying all the incredibly cruel things God did in the OT never happened? How he never flooded the entire world? How he didn't support slavery, rape(and how the victim should be killed along with the rapist), murder and human sacrifice? I'm not using God as a scapegoat for my life and why it is as it is, I love my life and for the love of me some invisible magic being in the sky isn't the reason for that.
And I know he isn't here, who's right?(The Judeo-Christian God and Allah that is, the possibility of other Gods is still there)

Umm. No. Evilbible isn't right.