Would this world be a better place without religion?

[levi501]

Morality and social order... would it be better or worse without religion?
Is the empathy we feel for each other enough?
Does fear of the unknown influence us at all? What I mean by that is... fear of some great equalization recognized in life(karma) or in afterlife that perhaps serves as motivation for some..

I guess this hypothetical should be if religion was magically gone today...
And not what would the world be if there never was religion.

Hard to get off topic on this one unless you start throwing out bible versus.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Morality and social order... would it be better or worse without religion?

It depends on what sort of ethics and culture replaces religion. Could be much better. Could be much worse. Or anywhere in between.

 

[jonwsj]

Morality and social order... would it be better or worse without religion?
Is the empathy we feel for each other enough?
Does fear of the unknown influence us at all? What I mean by that is... fear of some great equalization recognized in life(karma) or in afterlife that perhaps serves as motivation for some..

I guess this hypothetical should be if religion was magically gone today...
And not what would the world be if there never was religion.

Hard to get off topic on this one unless you start throwing out bible versus.

Hello,

I believe the world was once without religion--It was in the days of Noah when everybody did what was right in their own eyes and God saw that people wanted only to do evil continually, so He destroyed them all.

But if you're talking about a world without any religions at all (Islamic, Buddhist, etc.) I think everybody would commit suicide, because what would be the point of living? Without hope in the afterlife, the existence of God, etc., there's really no reason to live, even for pleasure, since we'll all die anyway.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Zaac]

Morality and social order... would it be better or worse without religion?

The world is currently filled with a majority of people who do not have Jesus Christ. If everbody adhered to Him, would it be better or worse?

Is the empathy we feel for each other enough?

Nope.

Hard to get off topic on this one unless you start throwing out bible versus.

Just wait. I've got plenty for ya.

 

[theIncredibleHulk]

better place without closed minded fanatics of any sort

 

[Eudaimonist]

But if you're talking about a world without any religions at all (Islamic, Buddhist, etc.) I think everybody would commit suicide, because what would be the point of living?

I'm an atheist, and I haven't ever attempted suicide. I am not even prone to contemplating suicide, even whimsically.

Without hope in the afterlife, the existence of God, etc., there's really no reason to live, even for pleasure, since we'll all die anyway.

What are your thoughts?

Wow, that you are totally mistaken! And I'm speaking from personal experience!

Life is worth something in itself, not merely as a means -- some admissions test, perhaps -- to an afterlife. Every moment is life is precious, perhaps even more so because time in life is limited. Every sunset, every moment spent with loved ones, every day spent doing something creative that makes use of one's talents, etc... all are part of what makes life worth living. I am so happy to be alive!

 

[Blackmarch]

Morality and social order... would it be better or worse without religion?
Is the empathy we feel for each other enough?
Does fear of the unknown influence us at all? What I mean by that is... fear of some great equalization recognized in life(karma) or in afterlife that perhaps serves as motivation for some..

I guess this hypothetical should be if religion was magically gone today...
And not what would the world be if there never was religion.

Hard to get off topic on this one unless you start throwing out bible versus.

If religion was gone, (and there was no God) something would be made in it's place. Also many great teachings would be gone too..

If religion was gone (and there was God) God would visit the the earth and restore his truth to who ever he deemed worthy to be the one to restore it.

 

[jonwsj]

I'm an atheist, and I haven't ever attempted suicide. I am not even prone to contemplating suicide, even whimsically.



Wow, that you are totally mistaken! And I'm speaking from personal experience!

Life is worth something in itself, not merely as a means -- some admissions test, perhaps -- to an afterlife. Every moment is life is precious, perhaps even more so because time in life is limited. Every sunset, every moment spent with loved ones, every day spent doing something creative that makes use of one's talents, etc... all are part of what makes life worth living. I am so happy to be alive!

I think to be a _consistent_ atheist, may must choose suicide. You say "life is worth something." If all there is in the world is time + chance + matter, then _nothing_ has value. Nothing has relevance. Nothing has any worth, including your life. It doesn't matter if you help an old lady across the street or take a gun and shoot her. You need to come to grips with your irrelevance in the universe as an athiest, and once you do, you will choose suicide.

Saying that life is worth something is a concept borrowed from Christianity. So I don't believe you are a total athiest. (This is just my guess--I don't really know you well enough to pass judgment and I apologize if I'm jumping to conclusions about you.)

--Jon

 

[Hydra009]

better place without closed minded fanatics of any sort

Eh, many of them would probably just be fanatical about something else. Jingoism, for example.

 

[Vastavus]

I think to be a _consistent_ atheist, may must choose suicide. You say "life is worth something." If all there is in the world is time + chance + matter, then _nothing_ has value. Nothing has relevance. Nothing has any worth, including your life. It doesn't matter if you help an old lady across the street or take a gun and shoot her. You need to come to grips with your irrelevance in the universe as an athiest, and once you do, you will choose suicide.

I believe that I am totally irrelevant. Humans as a species are so insignificant. In the grand scheme of things, I have no real worth. However, as I see it, every moment is immeasurably valuable, every second of my life is spend in admiration of God's universe, and when that universe is used as a frame of reference, I realize that I don't matter at all.

I would argue that I am one of the happiest people alive. I have never even thought of suicide. It seems odd to tell people that realizing things that they already have realized will cause them to take their own life.

 

[HRE]

I think that the world would be rather worse of without religion, if religion suddenly ceased to be. If it had not existed from the beginning, it is impossible to say.

If religion suddenly ceased to be, many people would have no reason to continue living or to treat others with respect. Many, not having though atheism all the way through, would simply pick up their shotguns and raid the local grocery store.

Religion may be the opiate of the masses, but it is as painful and damaging to remove as any other addiction, be it heroin or cutting.

That said, I am an atheist and I have never even considered suicide. A teenage atheist, I might add.

I continue to live, because I quite frankly really enjoy life. Even on the bad days, I know that there might be a good day in the future, and I live for that future day.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes this world will be a better place without religion which is man made when the truth - Jesus Christ reigns from Jerusalem and all the nations serve Him

 

[HazyRigby]

Saying that life is worth something is a concept borrowed from Christianity.

Do you have any proof of this? Can you talk to the multitudes who lived before Christianity even existed and ask them what they think? Why don't you read some of the works of our earliest storytellers, people who were writing not just centuries, but millenia before the Pentateuch was composed? Why don't you ask them why, if life had no meaning sans Christianity, they bothered to compose epic poems? I mean, why go through the trouble of telling stories about great men if those great men were seen as so much dust in the wind?

I am an atheist, but I am happy. And my life is meaningful because I choose to give it meaning. My consciousness is enough.

 

[Scholar in training]

better place without closed minded fanatics of any sort

Why do you assume that atheists can't be fanatical? Atheists can be serial killers and murderers just like so-called "Christians", "Muslims", etc. can.

 

[Salubri]

Why do you assume that atheists can't be fanatical? Atheists can be serial killers and murderers just like so-called "Christians", "Muslims", etc. can.

Well it always take a small, LOUD minority to make any group look bad.


As for the question at hand...yes I do suppose the world would be an EASIER place (would'nt go so far to say BETTER mind you) If there was no religion.

I always thought, after seeing so much bickering and fighting and even violence in response to faith and values and ideal, that the world woul be sooo much easier if we were Bi-sexual Agnostics.....but then again, my self being neither one of those, it would be slightly hypocrytical of me i think.

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

I think that the world would be rather worse of without religion, if religion suddenly ceased to be. If it had not existed from the beginning, it is impossible to say.

If religion suddenly ceased to be, many people would have no reason to continue living or to treat others with respect. Many, not having though atheism all the way through, would simply pick up their shotguns and raid the local grocery store.

Religion may be the opiate of the masses, but it is as painful and damaging to remove as any other addiction, be it heroin or cutting.

That said, I am an atheist and I have never even considered suicide. A teenage atheist, I might add.

I continue to live, because I quite frankly really enjoy life. Even on the bad days, I know that there might be a good day in the future, and I live for that future day.

About my thoughts on the subject. I don't think religous or secular systems are really that much different, but i think many religous people would commit evil acts without religion.

 

[HazyRigby]

And let's hear from some of the people who lived long before Christianity was even heard of:

Confucius: "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

Buddha: "Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

Lao-Tse: "A tree that can fill the span of a man's arms grows from a downy tip; A terrace nine stories high rises from hodfuls of earth; A journey of a thousand miles starts from beneath one's feet."

Socrates: "The unexamined life is not worth living."

Plato: "Justice in the life and conduct of the State is possible only as first it resides in the hearts and souls of the citizens."

Aristotle: "Humor is the only test of gravity, and gravity of humor; for a subject which will not bear raillery is suspicious, and a jest which will not bear serious examination is false wit."

Meaningless? Hardly. If anything, the idea of life having meaning--if Christianity does indeed believe such a thing-- could only have been borrowed by Christianity, not from it.

 

[HRE]

Cha-ching!

 

[]RiSeN[]

Vastavus, i have to disagree with your statement. I could hardly think of the crowning jewel of Gods creation as being insignificant, and of having no worth. "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten son, in order that everyone excercising faith in Him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life"-John 3:16

You might spend every second of your life in admiration of God's universe, but are you in harmony with His universe? Are you living in it in a way which pleases HIM? I can stand and admire my beautiful car, but will all my admiration put gas in the tank, drive me where i need to go, or maintain the good condition of my car? Does the car need my admiration? When the dealership asks for payment of my car, will i pay in admiration? Admiration, awe, and reverance are all part of our relationship and service to God, but can we honestly say that they are enough thanks for the life we've been given?

Levi501,
We have had a need for the Divine, and its guidance, since the beging of creation. Even the astrologists of Babel looked up to the heavens for direction. I prefer the word direction to religion. Religion to me is too constrictive a term. It evoques in my mind the image of a horse with blinders on, its walking in the right direction, but not because it wants to, or because it knows where its going, but because it has been blinded by the driver. Is God in the drivers seat of every religion? Centuries of squabbling and warfare would answer with a resounding no. Would we be better off with less drivers and wagons? I personnaly think yes. But the idea that we need but our own guidance i think is wrong. I definitly need Gods guidance.

Morality and social order, in other words civilization has been built on laws and principles, all which can be found in the bible if read carefully. And i hardly think verses of, in my opinion, the greatest philosophy book, writen by the Alpha and Omega of wisdom could get us off topic. The difference between our philosophies and wisdom and Gods, is that ours are all derived from hind-site. He, God, on the other hand repeatedly tries to warn us(throughout the bible) of what will happen if we do not listen to what in the end always reveals its self to be common sense. A small example; God telling the Isrealites(in exhile) not to eat pork = Trichonosis. Mmmm someone pass the porkchops, who've been sitting in the desert sun all day....

Matthew 7:1-5

 

[HazyRigby]

I guess I forgot to answer the original post...

I have to echo some to HRE's sentiments. If religion suddenly stopped existing (or if all gods were somehow absolutely proven not to exist, though I have no idea how that's possible), I think the world would become chaotic very quickly. I can't tell you how many times I've heard folks on this very board say things like "I would go 'round rapin' an' pillagin' if there were no God. What'd be the use in bein' good?" I think too many people have their ideas of morality wrapped up in the idea that God will punish them if they do not toe the line.

On the other hand, I think the world would be infinitely better if religion had never existed. How much farther along would we be in our scientific progress if the Dark Ages had never happened? How much human time and energy could we have devoted to more constructive tasks if no one felt the need to pray or go to church or have twenty babies? Lifting our eyes from our holy books and putting them to better use would have been incredible, I think.

Of course, I can't prove anything--it's all speculative.