Would someone please enlighten me on the official beliefs of the Methodist church?

[OrthodoxForever]

It seems to me that a difficulty in identifying Methodist theology may to some extent result from the fact that it wasn’t founded for doctrinal reasons. It’s not a confessional church. Its official positions, to the extent that I’ve looked at them, seem to be pretty generic mainline. Baptists have adult baptism. Lutherans have Luther’s perspective on pretty much everything. Presbyterians have election. Methodists have perfectly fine theology, but not an obvious point you can rally behind. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I was confirmed in a Methodist Church using, of all things, the Westminster Catechism. Was there no Methodist equivalent?

See, that and the fact that what that particular Pastor was preaching and what I was reading didn't match up (to the extent that I sometimes wondered if we were even reading the same thing) are a HUGE part of what drove me away in the first place. Once I was confirmed that was it, and confirmation class wasn't much of an education even into basic generic Christianity

Oddly enough, the similarities between Orthodoxy and Methodism is what kept me in the UMC. John Wesley borrowed quite a bit from both Anglicanism and Eastern Orthodoxy in his doctrinal understandings of things.

Huh, when I was researching the two I found a TON of differences, all of which were things that I was finding to be how Christians did things and what they believed going back to the beginning that somehow got forgotten about outside of the OCC somewhere between the Great Schism and the Protestant reformation.

 

[Charlie7399]

Huh, when I was researching the two I found a TON of differences, all of which were things that I was finding to be how Christians did things and what they believed going back to the beginning that somehow got forgotten about outside of the OCC somewhere between the Great Schism and the Protestant reformation.

I think what he meant is that traditional Protestantism (Methodism included) is closer to Orthodoxy than it is to Catholicism, in doctrine if not in practice. I'd say most differences between us are related to how we view Tradition.

 

[circuitrider]

Methodism does have theological distinctiveness. Yes, it is true that Methodism was not founded specifically over differences in the major doctrines that you and I see address in the ecumenical creeds. Wesley didn't disagree with the Anglican Church's basic doctrines for the most part.

But Wesley did disagree with the Anglican Church leaning towards Calvinism, as it did in his day. When he produced the Articles of Religion for the Methodists it was based on the Anglican doctrines and I gather that the articles that were eliminated were at last in part some that leaned in a Calvinist direction.

Wesley did have a theology of grace that developed throughout his ministry and the United Methodist emphasis on Prevenient, Justifying and Sanctifying Grace come from Wesley as does what was later developed at the Wesleyan Quadrilateral.

The Anglican system was based doctrine on "Scripture, Tradition and Reason." Wesley added "Experience" to that mix.

So while the doctrinal differences were not bedrock differences, the differences are meaningful. I am in the UMC largely because of Wesley's teachings about grace.

 

[GraceDriven]

What I found in the congregations I grew up in sadly, was more interest in "modernizing" and becoming more acceptable to the secular world than helping guide committed believers in the Christian life. In Orthodoxy it is not about "beating people down for their sinfulness" but rather lifting them out of their sins, working with the Holy Ghost to shatter sinful habits... that starts with defined theological and moral stances and an emphasis on private, continual, and specific confession, sometimes to the priest but not always. Fire and Brimstone has no place in Orthodoxy either, although that is a common misconception protestants tend to have about us.

Beating people down does not usually turn them away from their sinful ways. Actually, only believing does that. I was raised as Catholic but my grandfather was Methodist. It's kind of funny I am kind of a mesh of both denominations. I have been influenced by both.

 

[Qyöt27]

To compare, the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England and the Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church.

Going in reverse, the following are the articles not present on the Methodist side:

III. Of the going down of Christ into Hell.
As Christ died for us, and was buried, so also is it to be believed, that he went down into Hell.

VIII. Of the Creeds.
The Nicene Creed, and that which is commonly called the Apostles' Creed, ought thoroughly to be received and believed: for they may be proved by most certain warrants of Holy Scripture.

The original Article given Royal assent in 1571 and reaffirmed in 1662, was entitled "Of the Three Creeds; and began as follows, "The Three Creeds, Nicene Creed, Athanasius's Creed, and that which is commonly called the Apostles' Creed ..."

XIII. Of Works before Justification.
Works done before the grace of Christ, and the Inspiration of his Spirit, are not pleasant to God, forasmuch as they spring not of faith in Jesus Christ; neither do they make men meet to receive grace, or (as the School-authors say) deserve grace of congruity: yea rather, for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done, we doubt not but they have the nature of sin.

XV. Of Christ alone without Sin.
Christ in the truth of our nature was made like unto us in all things, sin only except, from which he was clearly void, both in his flesh, and in his spirit. He came to be the Lamb without spot, who, by sacrifice of himself once made, should take away the sins of the world; and sin (as Saint John saith) was not in him. But all we the rest, although baptized and born again in Christ, yet offend in many things; and if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

XVI. Of Sin after Baptism.
Not every deadly sin willingly committed after Baptism is sin against the Holy Ghost, and unpardonable. Wherefore the grant of repentance is not to be denied to such as fall into sin after Baptism. After we have received the Holy Ghost, we may depart from grace given, and fall into sin, and by the grace of God we may arise again, and amend our lives. And therefore they are to be condemned, which say, they can no more sin as long as they live here, or deny the place of forgiveness to such as truly repent.

XVII. Of Predestination and Election.
Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God, be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.

Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in Holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.

XVIII. Of obtaining eternal Salvation only by the Name of Christ.
They also are to be had accursed that presume to say, That every man shall be saved by the Law or Sect which he professeth, so that he be diligent to frame his life according to that Law, and the light of Nature. For Holy Scripture doth set out unto us only the Name of Jesus Christ, whereby men must be saved.

XX. Of the Authority of the Church.
The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: and yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

XXI. Of the Authority of General Councils.

[The Twenty-first of the former Articles is omitted; because it is partly of a local and civil nature, and is provided for, as to the remaining parts of it, in other Articles.]

The original 1571, 1662 text of this Article, omitted in the version of 1801, reads as follows: "General Councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of Princes. And when they be gathered together, (forasmuch as they be an assembly of men, whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God,) they may err, and sometimes have erred, even in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture."

XXIII. Of Ministering in the Congregation.
It is not lawful for any man to take upon him the office of public preaching, or ministering the Sacraments in the Congregation, before he be lawfully called, and sent to execute the same. And those we ought to judge lawfully called and sent, which be chosen and called to this work by men who have public authority given unto them in the Congregation, to call and send Ministers into the Lord's vineyard.

XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacraments.
Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ's, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in receiving the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ's ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith, and rightly, do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ's institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men.

Nevertheless, it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and finally, being found guilty, by just judgment be deposed.

XXIX. Of the Wicked, which eat not the Body of Christ in the use of the Lord's Supper.
The Wicked, and such as be void of a lively faith, although they do carnally and visibly press with their teeth (as Saint Augustine saith) the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ; yet in no wise are they partakers of Christ: but rather, to their condemnation, do eat and drink the sign or Sacrament of so great a thing.

XXXIII. Of excommunicate Persons, how they are to be avoided.
That person which by open denunciation of the Church is rightly cut off from the unity of the Church, and excommunicated, ought to be taken of the whole multitude of the faithful, as an Heathen and Publican, until he be openly reconciled by penance, and received into the Church by a Judge that hath authority thereunto.

XXXV. Of the Homilies.
The Second Book of Homilies, the several titles whereof we have joined under this Article, doth contain a godly and wholesome Doctrine, and necessary for these times, as doth the former Book of Homilies, which were set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth; and therefore we judge them to be read in Churches by the Ministers, diligently and distinctly, that they may he understanded of the people.

Of the Names of the Homilies.

1 Of the right Use of the Church.
2 Against Peril of Idolatry.
3 Of repairing and keeping clean of Churches.
4 Of good Works: first of Fasting.
5 Against Gluttony and Drunkenness.
6 Against Excess of Apparel.
7 Of Prayer.
8 Of the Place and Time of Prayer.
9 That Common Prayers and Sacraments ought to be ministered in a known tongue.
10 Of the reverend Estimation of God's Word.
11 Of Alms-doing.
12 Of the Nativity of Christ.
13 Of the Passion of Christ.
14 Of the Resurrection of Christ.
15 Of the worthy receiving of the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ.
16 Of the Gifts of the Holy Ghost.
17 For the Rogation-days.
18 Of the State of Matrimony.
19 Of Repentance.
20 Against Idleness.
21 Against Rebellion.

[This Article is received in this Church, so far as it declares the Books of Homilies to be an explication of Christian doctrine, and instructive in piety and morals. But all references to the constitution and laws of England are considered as inapplicable to the circumstances of this Church; which also suspends the order for the reading of said Homilies in churches, until a revision of them may be conveniently made, for the clearing of them, as well from obsolete words and phrases, as from the local references.]

XXXVI. Of Consecration of Bishops and Ministers.
The Book of Consecration of Bishops, and Ordering of Priests and Deacons, as set forth by the General Convention of this Church in 1792, doth contain all things necessary to such Consecration and Ordering; neither hath it any thing that, of itself, is superstitious and ungodly. And, therefore, whosoever are consecrated or ordered according to said Form, we decree all such to be rightly, orderly, and lawfully consecrated and ordered.

The original 1571, 1662 text of this Article reads as follows: "The Book of Consecration of Archbishops and Bishops, and Ordering of Priests and Deacons, lately set forth in the time of Edward the Sixth, and confirmed at the same time by authority of Parliament, doth contain all things necessary to such Consecration and Ordering: neither hath it any thing, that of itself is superstitious and ungodly. And therefore whosoever are consecrated or ordered according to the Rites of that Book, since the second year of the forenamed King Edward unto this time, or hereafter shall be consecrated or ordered according to the same Rites; we decree all such to be rightly, orderly, and lawfully consecrated and ordered."

XXXVII. Of the Power of the Civil Magistrates.
The Power of the Civil Magistrate extendeth to all men, as well Clergy as Laity, in all things temporal; but hath no authority in things purely spiritual. And we hold it to be the duty of all men who are professors of the Gospel, to pay respectful obedience to the Civil Authority, regularly and legitimately constituted.

The original 1571, 1662 text of this Article reads as follows: "The King's Majesty hath the chief power in this Realm of England, and other his Dominions, unto whom the chief Government of all Estates of this Realm, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not, nor ought to be, subject to any foreign Jurisdiction. Where we attribute to the King's Majesty the chief government, by which Titles we understand the minds of some slanderous folks to be offended; we give not our Princes the ministering either of God's Word, or of the Sacraments, the which thing the Injunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queen do most plainly testify; but that only prerogative, which we see to have been given always to all godly Princes in holy Scriptures by God himself; that is, that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be Ecclesiastical or Temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evil-doers.

The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England.

The Laws of the Realm may punish Christian men with death, for heinous and grievous offences.

It is lawful for Christian men, at the commandment of the Magistrate, to wear weapons, and serve in the wars."

Some of it was Calvinist, some of it was Royalist, some of it I guess may have been seen as being more Catholic.

 

[circuitrider]

Some of it was Calvinist, some of it was Royalist, some of it I guess may have been seen as being more Catholic.

Or contrary to Wesley's interpretation of ministry.

 

[actionsub]

I think what he meant is that traditional Protestantism (Methodism included) is closer to Orthodoxy than it is to Catholicism, in doctrine if not in practice. I'd say most differences between us are related to how we view Tradition.

That's where I was headed with that statement. Wesley's view of the sacraments, for instance, was rooted more in the Orthodox idea of "mystery" rather than trying to develop a definition such as Catholic transubstantiation. As well, his view of sanctification seems to borrow much from the Orthodox doctrine of theosis. Granted, Methodism since Wesley has moved away from some of those understandings, but Wesley himself was heavily influenced in his construction of theology by Eastern thinking rather than Catholicism.