Would Smith Wigglesworth be welcome in your church?

[Always in His Presence]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Wigglesworth

The question is given because of another thread, someone said why isn't their another Smith, because he had the goods.

I believe he did 'have the goods', but I wonder if he would be accepted in any churches today.

 

[FireQuest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Wigglesworth

The question is given because of another thread, someone said why isn't their another Smith, because he had the goods.

I believe he did 'have the goods', but I wonder if he would be accepted in any churches today.

I certainly would like to think so! I really enjoy reading about his adventures with/in God, and would like to see the impact a 'Wigglesworth" would make on the churches today. However, I think you might also have a valid point that he would be too much, even for some "Spirit-filled" churches.I, for one, would be more than willing to have that opportunity!!!

 

[Atlantians]

I don't see why not.

 

[irenemcg]

Yep, he would be welcome!

 

[Yitzchak]

I think that he would be welcome in our church.

 

[Optimax]

Welcome or not Mr Wigglesworth would find bstow hanging around and asking questions constantly.

 

[JimB]

Smith Wigglesworth is a Pentecostal legend. Fabled stories of his exploits are hard to dispassionately distinguish from truth. What I would like is a truly objective honest-to-God historical account of his life.

I have a relative who was something of a Pentecostal church-planting/evangelist legend himself in the Texas-Okla-New Mexico region during the 1930s-50s.In the 60s-80s (he died in the mid-70s), I would visit churches to hear evangelists who, somewhere in their sermon, would often recount an incident about my uncle (twice-removed), not always knowing a relative of his was present. I knew that most of the stories never really happened – like when the sheriff met him on the outskirts of a town to tell him that his riot-causing services were not allowed in the city limits, so Unc allegedly pitched his tent right at the city limits, drew capacity crowds, had hundreds saved and healed and left one of the largest churches in the county in his defiant wake. Actually, it never happened and my uncle used to chuckle at these stories. He used to say, “If only half of them were true, I’d be the apostle Paul.”

What they did not know about my uncle was that he was a tyrant at home. None of his three children grew up to serve God. They all rebelled against his domineering, controlling personality. Our family knew his marriage was in shambles and they only stayed together “for the sake of the ministry”. One of his daughters once told me that they fought constantly – Sunday mornings were a shouting battle from sunup until their car pulled in the church parking lot, then they put on their Sunday faces and became the saintly leaders of the church. She said, “We had hypocrisy down to a ‘T’.” She did not even attend her father’s funeral, her hatred of him was so deep.

Still he was the subject of legend and sermons for two decades after he died. My uncle (may he rest in peace) was not the hero his legend made him out to be.

The point being, we don’t know who/what Smith Wigglesworth was, the truth behind the legend. I am sure he was a great man and had lots of faith, but we will never know for sure how much of his legend is fact and how much of it was just publicity hype.

We seem to have this craven need to idolize our heores. But, IMO, its best we not have any human idols and keep our focus on the only true Hero of our faith.

~Jim

Even a dime held close enough to the eye can blot out the sun.​

 

[~RENEE~]

Yep and pastor would have over for dinner. Man that would be the pastor's dream come true.

 

[Andry]

I'd be freaked out to see any dead person come to church.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Actually, the reason I asked is because, if you read his sermons he preached and strongly believed tow things that really seems to get people in an uproar these days.

He believed Healing was a guarenteed part of Salvation.

He believed man should demonstrate or be a "walking Christ" on the earth.

 

[Yitzchak]

Actually, the reason I asked is because, if you read his sermons he preached and strongly believed tow things that really seems to get people in an uproar these days.

He believed Healing was a guarenteed part of Salvation.

He believed man should demonstrate or be a "walking Christ" on the earth.

It is less offensive when someone says that everyone should be healed when they lay hands on people in the meeting and all of them are indeed healed. Much of the offense comes when people are not healed and the blaming as to why not begins.

I see the same principle at work. As long as the company is making record profits , things are good for everyone. But when recession comes , the blaming begins. Same principle in sports. if our team wins the championship , no one minds the coach who won't accept defeat gracefully.

The real issue , in my opinion , is how people deal with defeat or setbacks. Manytimes people don't accept it gracefully. But when we are winning hands down , there is not much to fight over.

 

[JimB]

All we hear written about SW may/may not be true. We are forced to take his or his biographer’s word for it. Faith, as you know if you read this forum, is a lot easier to talk about and write about than it is to live.

I am not saying lies were written about him, just the natural embellishments that come with legends. Have you ever heard the term “evangelistically-speaking” (or ‘evang-elastic-ally’ speaking). It was coined and came into popular use because evangelists tended to embellish stories, and everyone knew it. I imagine some of those kind of stories surround all “legendary” Pentecostal founders, SW included. We’ll never know for sure and that’s why we need to be careful that we have the facts before we spread a fib.

So, it is wise, IMO, to check the evidence before you spread a germ. And since that is impossible for men of SW’s era, it’s best to read their stuff, say, “Interesting”, lay it down and move on.

~Jim

​

​

Even a dime held close enough to the eye can blot out the sun.


​

 

[Always in His Presence]

It is less offensive when someone says that everyone should be healed when they lay hands on people in the meeting and all of them are indeed healed. Much of the offense comes when people are not healed and the blaming as to why not begins.

In one of his meetings, a man came a second time for prayer and Smith physically threw him off the stage, saying he shouldn't come for what he already has and not to bring unbelief to him again.

Would that be a little over the top?

As for JM

I am not saying lies were written about him, just the natural embellishments that come with legends. Have you ever heard the term “evangelistically-speaking” (or ‘evang-elastic-ally’ speaking). It was coined and came into popular use because evangelists tended to embellish stories, and everyone knew it. I imagine some of those kind of stories surround all “legendary” Pentecostal founders, SW included. We’ll never know for sure and that’s why we need to be careful that we have the facts before we spread a fib

What JM may or may not be aware of it the literally hundreds of first hand accounts of Smith's ministry that are still available today.

Not just his biographer, but contemporaries who were first hand witnesses.


How do you think the man's ministry became "legendary"? It's because of the abundance of witnesses - some who are still alive today - that we can know for sure, or as close as anyone can be sure - that the nature of the man's ministry is accurately portrayed.

I had the privilege about 10 years ago to meet and speak with a gentleman who traveled with Smith in his later years. He said something really interesting at the start -

He told me he would discuss anything I wanted, but Smith personally - when I asked him why, his reply was:

"Smith wasn't interested in Smith - so why should I?"

 

[RevJdK]

I think you have to also recognize that he was not only a Pentecostal pioneer, he was most definately a WOF pioneer.
Jim, you seem to REALLY want to point out your view on the testimonies written about him being far fetched....It makes me wonder why....I have my guesses....
I personally dont think he would be welcomed in most pentecostal circles today...His message wouldnt be welcomed (just take a look at how THIS pentecostal forum reacts to the WOF message....The WOF message IS the same message he preached) in most churches today...some would probably do physical harm to him..because his message would cause some to come to this simple realization....that IF they accepted his message, and it wasnt manifesting in their life...then either they are God is doing something wrong..and since most dont want to look in the mirror, they create this gray area where neither they nor God is doing something wrong...its just "a part of life"....or "God is teaching them something"....or some other unBiblical nonsense.

 

[Adammi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Wigglesworth

The question is given because of another thread, someone said why isn't their another Smith, because he had the goods.

I believe he did 'have the goods', but I wonder if he would be accepted in any churches today.

I don't know enough about him to say either way, but Wigglesworth was a gift for his own time, not ours.

 

[J4Jesus]

I certainly would like to think so! I really enjoy reading about his adventures with/in God, and would like to see the impact a 'Wigglesworth" would make on the churches today. However, I think you might also have a valid point that he would be too much, even for some "Spirit-filled" churches.I, for one, would be more than willing to have that opportunity!!!

HI Firequest! Good to see you
You're right -alot of them would run away
It would have been great to be here when He was around

 

[pauldst]

I don't know enough about him to say either way, but Wigglesworth was a gift for his own time, not ours.

Huh???? Are you saying that no one like that could exist today? If so, why?

 

[JimB]

*****

As for JM

What JM may or may not be aware of it the literally hundreds of first hand accounts of Smith's ministry that are still available today.

Not just his biographer, but contemporaries who were first hand witnesses.


How do you think the man's ministry became "legendary"? It's because of the abundance of witnesses - some who are still alive today - that we can know for sure, or as close as anyone can be sure - that the nature of the man's ministry is accurately portrayed.

I had the privilege about 10 years ago to meet and speak with a gentleman who traveled with Smith in his later years. He said something really interesting at the start -

He told me he would discuss anything I wanted, but Smith personally - when I asked him why, his reply was:

"Smith wasn't interested in Smith - so why should I?"

Okay. What you may not know is how readily people are susceptible to suggestion. I am and eyewitness to an event that happened at a large youth rally in Houston during the 1970s. It was a highly emotional event led by a then well-known team of evangelists. I was there with our youth group.

One particular evening, the evening that became the subject of legend, was especially highly-charged and I will admit to feeling the powerful presence of God, one of those super-powerful events. In the weeks that followed I began hearing reports of the meeting (mostly from people who weren’t even there) of how a huge “shekinah” cloud of glory descended on the congregation, and how “everyone” was “slain” in the Spirit, and how "hundreds" came to the Lord in one swoop.

None of this was true, but the rumor took on a life of its own (fueled in part by the evangelistic team that led the youth conference who told their embellished story all across the country). It became so pervasive that even those who were there were caught up in the myth and began imagining that they too saw a cloud, and fell under the power, and saw hundreds come to Christ at one time.

But it didn’t happen, I reminded them. Well, maybe it did and I just didn’t see it, they said. It didn’t happen, I said. But it must have happened, they said, because so many people say it did. Sigh, I said.

It is still talked about as though it happened by, amazingly, people who were there but mostly by people who only imagine that they were. It has become known as “The Night the Glory Fell on Houston”. Only, it just never happened.

Such is the power of suggestion. Myth becomes true because we so desperately want it to be true.

Still, it is not a myth, but the truth, that sets us free.

~Jim

Even a dime held close enough to the eye can blot out the sun.​

 

[NewSong]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Wigglesworth

The question is given because of another thread, someone said why isn't their another Smith, because he had the goods.

I believe he did 'have the goods', but I wonder if he would be accepted in any churches today.

As a guest or as a speaker? Or as a minister?

For me the answer is yes he would be welcome. Would he be allowed to minister or speak? That is really hard to say because he isn't here to know his standing with God.

And yes I know who Smith Wigglesworth is and like some others have indicated, we only have accounts of others about Wigglesworth.

 

[JimB]

Huh???? Are you saying that no one like that could exist today? If so, why?

What I think was meant is that Wigglesworth was a man of his times; not ours. Like Esther, maybe he was raised up for such a time.

Sure, women/men today can have a powerful ministry for God but, quite frankly, I am a little weary of the idolatry we hold the more visible ministries in (whose press releases we believe) and the mythical quality of those of previous generations who may/may not have had the super ministries our legends have given them.

If we would stop idolizing men and women and start concentrating on being all we can be for God (with or without the spotlight) we might indeed have a ministry that would bless others.

Would we host Smith Wigglesorth in our church? Sure. But I would prefer the real one, not the mythical one.

~Jim

Even a dime held close enough to the eye can blot out the sun.​