Would it be sin?!?

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

praying said:
Correct me if I wrong, is not the intent of NFP to avoid pregnancy, to plan when, we as couples can seek sexual gratification with the least chance of conceiving? Is that not the same intent as birth control? The only difference being birth control being much more reliable.

It's not the same intent as CONTRAPCEPTION.

NFP is open to life, for if one is fertile, there is no impediment to conception if one engages in sex. There is absolutely no attempt to make the sexual act itself deliberately sterile.

With CONTRACEPTION, one is not open to life during while engaging in the sexual act . . . it is an attempt to make the sexual act itself deliberately sterile with no hope of life.

In addition, NFP cannot induce abortions.

With CONTRACEPTION, all methods of contraception can or will induce abortion ,except for methods that are solely barrier . . .

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Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

thereselittleflower said:
That was only one of the conditions given . . . .

And even if all the conditions are met, there is no guarantee that it will work in 100% of the cases, just as no birth control, other than abstinence, is guaranteed to work in 100% of the cases.

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which is the point. Nothing can stop life, so we should repest it's power and not try to control it.

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

KJVisTruth said:
I am telling you the truth, nothing more. Some people really are extremely fertile, like me and thats why theres birth control, has it occurred to you thats why they say nothing is 100%? We are thankful for that, God truly provides.

Umm . .there is articifical contraception because of sin. It is not something God provided. . .

God does not provide something to turn His blessings into curses, to make what He intended to be fertile barren . . .

To allow men and women to use a gift given for procreation and turn it into something sterile for self gratification.

Artificial contraception is not from God .. .

It is from the ruler of this world, the very enemy of our souls, the father of lies, who seeks to destroy life and make sterile what God created to be fertile and be an IMAGE of HIMSELF.

It is nothing short of an attack on the VERY IMAGE OF GOD IN MAN . . .

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Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

KJVisTruth said:
I am telling you the truth, nothing more. Some people really are extremely fertile, like me and thats why theres birth control, has it occurred to you thats why they say nothing is 100%? We are thankful for that, God truly provides.

and so am i... but if i have a really grave reason to avoid pregnancy I will abstain.

Like they say, the only safe sex is no sex.

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
Where in the bible did God give permission to alter the human body with regards to fertility? How is NFP altering the body?

Exactly!

Where did God ever rescind His command to be fertile?

Where did God ever say we can make what He created and commanded to be fertile, deliberately sterile?

Why does man, especially those who name the name of Christ, make God a liar and His commands of no effect?

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Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

Uphill Battle said:
I don't have to prove squat, though.... I make no claims to be a member of the only church of Christ. Those who make the claim, must prove it. and this is something you cannot do.

We never say the catholic Church is the only Church, just that it is the Church Christ established. We know where the Church is, not where its not.

Now please show me where in the bible it says we can alter a healthy working human body with chemicals and surgeries?

Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

thereselittleflower said:
Exactly!

Where did God ever rescind His command to be fertile?

Where did God ever say we can make what He created and commanded to be fertile, deliberately sterile?

Why does man, especially those who name the name of Christ, make God a liar and His commands of no effect?

.

Yes uphill, where?

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

Uphill Battle said:
aaaand those who use contraceptives don't pray about the matter? Bold assertion....

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't . . . but did they listen caerfully to the answer?

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Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

Uphill Battle said:
Should we not be more concerned with what the bible DOES say, as opposed to what it doesn't?

Your using a negative proof.

By the same line of thinking, you cannot do anything the bible does not say you CAN do. Obviously this is not the case. For instance, where in the bible does it say you have license to treat disease? nowhere, so we cannot do it. Where in the bible does it say you can sleep in on saturday? nowhere, so you can't do it.

Firstly, it's funny that an RC would argue about where the bible does or does not say something, as they don't believe it has to be in the bible to be perfect truth. Secondly, arguing negative proof is worthless. If the bible stated "thou shalt not prevent pregnancy" we'd obey this. If the bible said "thou must have 23 children" We'd try. It is mute on the issue of contraception. We have to pay attention to what it DOES say.

This argument is totally desperately grasping at straws.

the bible does not say "we can't contracept" so that means we are free as birds to go to the extreme end and rip out our organs and take cancer causing chemicals that have the ability to abort children that have been conceived?

... Lord have mercy.

Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

CaliforniaJosiah said:
In the OT, God REQUIRED male circumcision.

Just a thought.

That's' right GOD asked for it. Where does God ever ask for sterilizing the reproductive organs in order to not get preganant?

praying · Feb 5, 2007

thereselittleflower said:
Why do you think that?

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Well you stated about being fruitful and mulitpy and were are nout full YET, over crowded in some areas but not all. You implied we should just fill up the earth until ther is no more room.

praying · Feb 5, 2007

I just want one question answered is NFP okay to be practiced to avoid pregnancy when there is no reason medical or otherwise not to be pregnant?

Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

ParsonJefferson said:
EXACTLY.

It is the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church - NOT the teachings of the Bible.

"Never-mind what the BIBLE says, the CHURCH teaches this!"

which is why at least 5 non catholics agree with us in this thread? becuase the Church taught them this?

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
That other non catholics agree with and not because of authority but because of the bible.

This posses a problem for stability of your argument- in fact it discredits it.

Kimberly Hahn is a prime example . . while still extremely anti-Catholic, her investigation into htis entire issue delving deep into scripture and the teachings of the Early Church led her to a complete rejection of artificial contraception in keeping with Catholic teaching, and she was still extremely anti-Catholic. She was the wife of a Presbyterian theologian and minister:

While studying for her M.A., Kimberly carried out research into the history of Christian attitudes towards contraception. She discovered that every Christian Church without exception had condemned the practice until 1930, and that some of the most famous Protestant reformers Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and Knox had condemned it strongly. She also read Catholic author John Kippley, who likened contraception to the practice of feasting and deliberately vomiting. At that stage, Scott and Kimberly both had strong objections to many Catholic teachings, but, after prayer, Bible study, and reflection, they both became convinced that on that issue, at least, the Catholic position was biblical. They changed to Natural Family Planning for a while, then decided to leave the timing of pregnancies entirely to God. Their first son was born on December 4 1982.

http://www.answers.com/topic/kimberly-hahn

Life-Giving Love (2001) ISBN 1-56955-292-4

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thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

praying said:
I just want one question answered is NFP okay to be practiced to avoid pregnancy when there is no reason medical or otherwise not to be pregnant?

Only if one is open to life and is not using it as a way to never have children simply so one can satisfy their carnal desires . . . . .

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praying · Feb 5, 2007

thereselittleflower said:
Only if one is open to life and is not using it as a way to never have children. . . . .

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My question was yes or no. Perhaps yes with an explanation or no with an explanation but the above doesn't answer the question. Or it's just me.

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

praying said:
Well you stated about being fruitful and mulitpy and were are nout full YET, over crowded in some areas but not all. You implied we should just fill up the earth until ther is no more room.

I implied no such thing . ..

Where did God rescind His command to be fruitful and multiply?

Do you believe we can disobey this command and decide that it no longer applies?

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Benedicta00 · Feb 5, 2007

praying said:
Well you stated about being fruitful and mulitpy and were are nout full YET, over crowded in some areas but not all. You implied we should just fill up the earth until ther is no more room.

are you a Christian who believes in population control?

elsbeth · Feb 5, 2007

I realize there are people who will disagree with me, but there simply isn't any clear Bible teaching that contraception is a sin. The examples cited just don't say that. I've noticed that many people seem to do this al ot- they quote a Bible verse that say A, and then they say "well, everyone knows it really means B". No, it says A, and only A.

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2007

praying said:
My question was yes or no. Perhaps yes with an explanation or no with an explanation but the above doesn't answer the question. Or it's just me.

Is there some confusion regarding the word "only" ?

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Would it be sin?!?

Did this couple sin in their actions?

No, of course not.

Yes, it is still sin.

Don't know/other (please specify.)

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