Would it be better to be blissfully ignorant?

[Swart]

Consider the above poll:

If the Buddhist is saved because he never heard of Christ, wouldn't it be better for Christians to keep people ignorant of Christ and just teach people to 'be good'?

Everybody agrees it's a good thing to be nice to each other, but many people reject Jesus and are still nice people. There are many atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. that are very committed to their beliefs and are good, kind, nice people. However, because they reject Christ, according to OC theology they are damned to hell because they heard of Christ and rejected Him.

If we kept people ignorant, however, and those that never hear of Christ are judged according to what they know and how they live, doesn't that mean in preaching Christ we are damning good people to hell?

 

[A New Dawn]

Consider the above poll:

If the Buddhist is saved because he never heard of Christ, wouldn't it be better for Christians to keep people ignorant of Christ and just teach people to 'be good'?

Everybody agrees it's a good thing to be nice to each other, but many people reject Jesus and are still nice people. There are many atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. that are very committed to their beliefs and are good, kind, nice people. However, because they reject Christ, according to OC theology they are damned to hell because they heard of Christ and rejected Him.

If we kept people ignorant, however, and those that never hear of Christ are judged according to what they know and how they live, doesn't that mean in preaching Christ we are damning good people to hell?

Who says that those who have never heard of Christ (and therefore cannot accept or deny Him) are blissfully ignorant? Many who have accepted Christ were living in hell-on-earth. Who would give up Christ to go back to that?

Would you trade your relationship with Christ away to be ignorant again? I wouldn't.

When I was RLDS, I did not believe that I was going to Celestial Glory. I knew the things I did that were wrong, and did them in spite of the fact that doing them could alter where I spent my eternity. But repenting and coming again to Him more than made up for it. I would rather spend one day here with Christ, than face the possibility that I would never know Him.

So, count me out of the blissfully ignorant camp.

 

[Swart]

So, count me out of the blissfully ignorant camp.

That's fine, since you've accepted Christ. It ain't so fine for those that haven't. Can any peace in this life compare to the peace of the eternities? Aren't we condemning countless millions to hell through the preaching of Christ that would otherwise have gone to heaven?

 

[drstevej]

Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men [and that includes Buddah], whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:10-12

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

These are Bible verses.

 

[drstevej]

Aren't we condemning countless millions to hell through the preaching of Christ that would otherwise have gone to heaven?

• First, sin and sin alone condemns people to hell.
• Second, preaching apart from the Spirit's regeneration is talking to corpses. They're dead, Jim!
• Third, ONLY the ones chosen By the Father will come and none of these will be lost (Jn 6)
• Fourth, Calvinists have been some of the most ardent missionaries (William Carey) and evangelists (George Whitefield).

 

[Swart]

• First, sin and sin alone condemns people to hell.
• Second, preaching apart from the Spirit's regeneration is talking to corpses. They're dead, Jim!
• Third, ONLY the ones chosen By the Father will come and none of these will be lost (Jn 6)
• Fourth, Calvinists have been some of the most ardent missionaries (William Carey) and evangelists (George Whitefield).

So, are you going to vote?


Which of them are going to hell? One? Both? None?

 

[drstevej]

There is no Plan B. If they die apart from Christ they will spend eternity in Hell.

"Exemplary" Buddhists or "exemplary" anything else have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

 

[Swart]

There is no Plan B. If they die apart from Christ they will spend eternity in Hell.

"Exemplary" Buddhists or "exemplary" anything else have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

So, what of those that never heard of Christ? What of those that never had an opportunity to accept Him? What about Romans 1 & 5 in this regard?

 

[drstevej]

Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men [and that includes Buddah], whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:10-12

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Swart]

Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men [and that includes Buddah], whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:10-12

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I understand there are differing positions within OCy.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savn.htm

"What about this present age? Again, the question needs to be asked... What about those who never heard? God judges based on what people have and know, not on what they do not. This goes for those such as infants, mentally disabled and also those isolated from the full gospel. Their consciences will either justify them by faith in what knowledge God has imparted to them about salvation, or condemn them for rejecting that knowledge." source

[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]"People who do not hear the Gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motive for evangelism." source

"[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It doesn't say anywhere in scripture that those who have never heard the gospel are condemned." source

So, drstevej. What is your vote?
[/font]

 

[drstevej]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
So, drstevej. What is your vote?
[/font]

Ya must a missed this...

There is no Plan B. If they die apart from Christ they will spend eternity in Hell.

"Exemplary" Buddhists or "exemplary" anything else have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Now if your two Buddhists don't have the the approval of the Prophet Joseph Smith, SBUHN then they will not be in the presence of Heavenly Father in eternity.... right?

And they won't be making spirit babies.

 

[Rescued One]

Everyone is condemned until they are saved.

Romans 3
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Swart]

Now if your two Buddhists don't have the the approval of the Prophet Joseph Smith, SBUHN then they will not be in the presence of Heavenly Father in eternity.... right?

And they won't be making spirit babies.

Do you always become offensive when trying to 'reach out' to people? Is this how you exemplify Christ? Are these the fruits of love, joy, peace, happiness etc?

You also haven't explained what SBUHN stands for yet.

And you haven't answered the question. I must assume that your red-herring comes as a result of being unable or unwilling to answer it.

 

[Swart]

Everyone is condemned until they are saved.

So, how is the person who has never heard of Christ saved?

 

[B®ent]

The Holy Spirit can (and does sometimes) lead those who haven't heard the message to salvation. The Gospel comes not only in the form of words, but also in deep conviction of the Spirit. I believe all will 'hear' the Gospel, whether in words, Spirit or both.

 

[CaliforniaKid]

Swart,

Your post seems to me to attack Mormon theology, not OC theology. After all, it's the Mormons who say that only people who have not rejected the gospel in this life will be able to be saved in the next. So if people aren't taught the Mormon gospel in this life, they never reject it and can therefore be glorified post mortem. By contrast, OC theology teaches you must have Christ to be saved, period.

Of course, I think this whole line of reasoning can lead us down the wrong road. Take for example the "age of accountability" teaching. I'd be doing babies a favor to mass-murder them, so they are instantly saved. But mass-murdering babies isn't exactly a tenet of the Christian (or Mormon) religion, and would get me sent to hell. Still, wouldn't it be the "right" thing to sacrifice my own salvation for the sake of the millions of babies I save from hell? Sheesh, that could be a long and nasty road into some awful heresies. Fact is, the Bible doesn't spell out what accommodations God makes for people who haven't heard the gospel-- or for babies. The Bible tells us two things: that there is no name but Christ by which we can be saved and that we are to preach and make disciples of all nations. I hope God is merciful enough to make accommodations for people, but I would not be so foolish as to construct a theology around that speculation.
-CK

 

[Swart]

Your post seems to me to attack Mormon theology, not OC theology. After all, it's the Mormons who say that only people who have not rejected the gospel in this life will be able to be saved in the next.

The LDS teaching on this is that those who would have accepted it had they been permitted to tarry:

D&C 137: 7
Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;
So there is still some link between our actual actions in this life and the next one.

AFAIK there is no coherent OC belief on the state of those who have not had the opportunity to accept Christ.

So if people aren't taught the Mormon gospel in this life, they never reject it and can therefore be glorified post mortem. By contrast, OC theology teaches you must have Christ to be saved, period.

I understand that to be EC theology and not necessarily an encompassing statement for all of OCy.

Of course, I think this whole line of reasoning can lead us down the wrong road. Take for example the "age of accountability" teaching. I'd be doing babies a favor to mass-murder them, so they are instantly saved.

I have stated my opinion on this matter. I believe they will have the chance to live their lives in the millenium and make choices there.

Nobody gets a second chance, but everyone gets a first chance.

Fact is, the Bible doesn't spell out what accommodations God makes for people who haven't heard the gospel-- or for babies. The Bible tells us two things: that there is no name but Christ by which we can be saved and that we are to preach and make disciples of all nations. I hope God is merciful enough to make accommodations for people, but I would not be so foolish as to construct a theology around that speculation.

Nice.

 

[Bevlina]

*Moderator Note*


This thread has been moved from UT to NCR in order for those of other faiths to respond.

 

[Kas]

Consider the above poll:

If the Buddhist is saved because he never heard of Christ, wouldn't it be better for Christians to keep people ignorant of Christ and just teach people to 'be good'?

Everybody agrees it's a good thing to be nice to each other, but many people reject Jesus and are still nice people. There are many atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. that are very committed to their beliefs and are good, kind, nice people. However, because they reject Christ, according to OC theology they are damned to hell because they heard of Christ and rejected Him.

If we kept people ignorant, however, and those that never hear of Christ are judged according to what they know and how they live, doesn't that mean in preaching Christ we are damning good people to hell?

except that it is not what is good for the other person it is about what the Christ commanded us to do!

 

[Montalban]

These are Bible verses.

Not all who cry Lord! Lord! shall be saved!