Would Episcopalians/Anglicans Consider Masturbation a Sin?

[higgs2]

Personally, I believe that it is wrong within marriage. That was partly why I left the RCC. Their rules regarding artificial contraception and the 'regulation of births' through NFP can leave a couple open to the temptation of solitary masturbation. I believe this to be wrong and not what marriage is intended for.

It can lead to self-love through the release of 'bonding hormones'. These hormones are released during birth and breast-feeding as well. They are intended to help us to bond with another person, not with ourselves. Unfortunately, some long-term masturbators who live on their own for decades, end up very selfish and self-absorbed.

THis is very interesting. Do you have a link or citation or something, or is this your own theory?

 

[Finella]

That doesn't seem right. If a couple is married and one of the partners can no longer perform sexually, the other person would be forced to either cheat, dorce themselves on their spouse, suffer with desires they can never satisfy or get divorced. I would think remaining faithful to the person you love and satisfying yourself through other means would be better than the alternatives.

Exactly. Besides, if one masturbates while thinking of one's spouse, then isn't one still psychologically bonding with that spouse? It's not a totally self-absorbed thing all the time. As has been said before, it's not the act itself that's the problem, it's how it's used that can become problematic.

 

[She]

THis is very interesting. Do you have a link or citation or something, or is this your own theory?

My own observation (of narcissists that I know personally). I have also read several documents on the subject one of which is below:

http://www.inappropriate content-free.org/masturbation.htm

Masturbation conditions our bodies to respond to self-stimulation, which is self-centered. This damages our ability to relate to another person sexually. Sex is a relational experience, where we give attention to another person's needs at least as much as to our own. If we've been serving our own desires habitually, we may find it difficult to give our partner the attention he or she desires. Additionally, the hormones released in the brain during sexual arousal cause a bonding to whatever we are looking at and/or thinking about at the time. This can cause us to be more sexually responsive to masturbation (and its associated fantasies) than to real sex.

If you want to read more about this subject, please go to this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4886378-masturbation.html&page=12

and see what the Roman Catholics there are saying about it.

I am actually quite surprised that the Anglican Church has no teaching against it.

 

[Finella]

She, as narcissism is a personality disorder, it makes sense that persons with this condition could have problems with masturbation. It doesn't mean that others without these problems will become narcissistic or even more self-involved just because they touch.

Again, used exclusively for stimulation, sure, I agree that masturbation can cause problems in one's relationships. But this is true for many things in life -- alcohol, television, food. The church is right to not teach against it, but rather to teach about moderation in its use.

 

[higgs2]

My own observation (of narcissists that I know personally). I have also read several documents on the subject one of which is below:

http://www.inappropriate content-free.org/masturbation.htm



If you want to read more about this subject, please go to this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4886378-masturbation.html&page=12

and see what the Roman Catholics there are saying about it.

I am actually quite surprised that the Anglican Church has no teaching against it.

Oh my. Well, most people I know, narcissistic or not, don't really discuss their habits in this area. THose must be interesting conversation or observations of yours.

I can guess what the RC's say about it, it matters as much to me as what they say about birth control Th

But to each their own.

 

[She]

Oh my. Well, most people I know, narcissistic or not, don't really discuss their habits in this area. THose must be interesting conversation or observations of yours.

Yes.... somewhere along the lines of: "I don't agree with the Church's teachings on masturbation....." That's how I can tell that they touch. Apart from the fact that if people are quite happy living on their own (with no sexual partner) for 30 or more years, the chances are that they are masturbating, don't you think?

 

[higgs2]

Yes.... somewhere along the lines of: "I don't agree with the Church's teachings on masturbation....." That's how I can tell that they touch. Apart from the fact that if people are quite happy living on their own (with no sexual partner) for 30 or more years, the chances are that they are masturbating, don't you think?

Maybe. But I don't see the causality.

 

[gtsecc]

I can't believe people swallow this idea.

 

[She]

I can't believe people swallow this idea.

What idea?

 

[gtsecc]

Well, this is an interesting issue. You can't really type "touching yourself" into google, and expect to get too many helpful results!

But, no fear - I have done the research!

Here is a helpful video on the dangers of female touching yourself!
http://www.vidmax.com/index.php/videos/view/504

It's noninappropriate contentogrphic and safe for work.

 

[She]

Well, this is an interesting issue. You can't really type "touching yourself" into google, and expect to get too many helpful results!

But, no fear - I have done the research!

Here is a helpful video on the dangers of female touching yourself!
http://www.vidmax.com/index.php/videos/view/504

It's noninappropriate contentogrphic and safe for work.

Thanks for the laugh!

However, some of us were brought up in such strict religions as that. That is what is worrying. How far has Anglicanism moved from the Jewish religion, for example. The Eastern Orthodox see their religion (if I am not mistaken) as being on a continuum from the Jewish religion. So they have kept up a lot of the old rules (on the subject of morals) from the Jewish religion. Likewise, the Roman Catholic religion also has strict laws on the subject of morals which were present in the Jewish religion at the time of Christ.

How do we know that they are not right?

 

[She]

http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Masturbation

Jewish law clearly prohibits male masturbation. This law is derived from the story of Onan (Gen. 38:8-10), who practiced coitus interruptus as a means of birth control to avoid fathering a child for his deceased brother. G-d killed Onan for this sin. Although Onan's act was not truly masturbation, Jewish law takes a very broad view of the acts prohibited by this passage, and forbids any act of ha-sh'cha'tat zerah (destruction of the seed), that is, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] outside of the vagina. In fact, the prohibition is so strict that one passage in the Talmud states, "in the case of a man, the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off." (Niddah 13a)

The issue is somewhat less clear for women. Obviously, spilling the seed is not going to happen in female masturbation, and there is no explicit Torah prohibition against female masturbation. Nevertheless, Judaism generally frowns upon female masturbation as "impure thoughts."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mt 1-28&version=31

Matthew 5:17-30
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[x] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+7

1 Corinthians 7
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[a] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

 

[higgs2]

http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Masturbation



http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mt 1-28&version=31



http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+7

That first link was really interesting. BUt I'm wondering if you would say that we need to be closer to what it says Jewish law states for the other topics on that page?

 

[She]

That first link was really interesting. BUt I'm wondering if you would say that we need to be closer to what it says Jewish law states for the other topics on that page?

I'm not sure what you mean. My reason for posting the three links, one after the other, was that I noticed that Jesus said that he had not come to abolish the Law but to "fulfill" it. He was actually adding to it, not subtracting. He told the disciples to follow the Law but to be better than the pharisees, i.e. not to be hypocrites.

I have also noticed that the idea (from the first Jewish link) that it would be better to cut off the hand than to sin, was reflected in what Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew. (Obviously this was not meant to be taken literally.)

My reason for quoting Paul's letter to the Corinthians was to show that marriage was the norm and that someone who was not married and could not control themselves may burn with passion. How would they burn with passion if they thought that they had the option to touch?

 

[Finella]

I donno, She, masturbation doesn't seem to be the solution to "burning with passion" -- it is no substitute for a sexual relationship with a person, not at all. And even if it was banned by Jewish custom and law, I wager many people masturbated anyway at the time. I'm sure it was an "option" but people lust anyway, even if they do touch.