would also stand by and watch a child get beaten to death?

[brinny]

Originally Posted by MacFall
Because that means that you will not commit yourself to violence, but you are perfectly willing to have others do violence on your behalf. You will make yourself the causal agent of violence, but you won't get your own hands dirty. That, my friend, is called "hypocrisy".

Might as well say you're against animal cruelty, which is why you have someone else butcher your meat.

Kinda reminds me of:

indeed.

 

[Kroiden]

you've stated your position perfectly. you wouldn't do anything to stop a madman from killing a child. is that about right?

By all means, please feel free to cast the first stone.

What country? what city?

I believe you do not need to know this.

 

[quatona]

Where did THAT come from? Are you serious?

It's about a 4 yr old, not about you.

Yes, my post was about countless dieing children, not about me.

 

[quatona]

Yes, I do. I'm just making sure that I am correct in understanding that you don't care about violence at all unless you're the one doing it.

Yes, that´s almost correct. Except for the unspecific operational term "care for".

 

[quatona]

Because that means that you will not commit yourself to violence, but you are perfectly willing to have others do violence on your behalf.

Well, I called the police in a case where no violence was involved nor asked for. It was a traffic accident that needed to be officilally documented. So no violence done or asked for on my or anyone´s behalf.
But nice attempt.

 

[quatona]

My thoughts exactly. It is the same in calling the police (those who are "against" violence) for they are having the police do the violence on their behalf.

I´m not sure what the declared purpose of the police is where you live. Here, in the neck of my woods, you can ask them for all sort of assistence, and - believe it or not - they will even help you if it doesn´t require them to act violently.
So what exactly makes you assume that I called the police for doing violence on my behalf?

 

[Macx]

I believe you do not need to know this.

So what I hear you saying is, not only do you lack the courage to stand up for a defenseless child, but you are also to scared of life to admit what city and country you are writting from. Okay, that is reasonable for a 9 year old . . . you have nothing to be ashamed of, in being young.

 

[quatona]

So what I hear you saying is, not only do you lack the courage to stand up for a defenseless child, but you are also to scared of life to admit what city and country you are writting from. Okay, that is reasonable for a 9 year old . . . you have nothing to be ashamed of, in being young.

Personally, I feel that the wish to keep whatever personal information private deserves to be respected (particularly on the internet) and is better not used for an opportunity for condescence.

That said, if you feel that a discussion on an internet forum requires the participants to give each other private information about themselves, I offer. Just let me know, and we can exchange our real names, full addresses, email, phone numbers (and possibly some additional bits of private information that you desire to give and receive) right here in this thread.

I don´t understand how exactly such information can be expected to help the discussion, but oh well, it´s not a problem for me to go there.

 

[Macx]

Personally, I feel that the wish to keep whatever personal information private deserves to be respected (particularly on the internet) and is better not used for an opportunity for condescence.

That said, if you feel that a discussion on an internet forum requires the participants to give each other private information about themselves, I offer. Just let me know, and we can exchange our real names, full addresses, email, phone numbers (and possibly some additional bits of private information that you desire to give and receive) right here in this thread.

I don´t understand how exactly such information can be expected to help the discussion, but oh well, it´s not a problem for me to go there.

A city and a country makes a bit of a difference in the context of the conversation.

The fella says:

I live in a violent erea, fights of people of all ages are very, very common. They carry knives more often than not. I automatically just walk away. Everybody else does also.

and

There is such a thing as conditioning. If violence is always around you, you just don't really notice it with much concern. If you are brought up around it, it just becomes a back ground noise.

Both responses indicate that he lives in some ultra-violent place, where crime happens ramapantly and nobody does a thing to help their fellow human. If he is writting from Schaumburg IL it is entirely different than if he is writting from Monrovia Liberia, sure. But even in Monrovia people will stand up and try to defend a child that is being beaten to death. Even Kosovo during the war. . . in the most savage times and locations, people still go out of their way to protect children with but a few exceptions - The cowards of Hamas that will use them as human shields and pacifists who post in this thread. So I have a genuine interest where this place of Kroiden's is. On the otherhand, I have been to places where every male over the age of about 7 carries a knife and most of the men either carry guns or have them in their vehicles . . 'course the crime rate in those places is close to nil (mostly drunk driving and drug related crimes, next to no property or C4 offenses) so I suspect that isn't where Kroiden is talking about.

A city and a country hardly violate anyones internet anonymity. Check it out, I not only post my city but I post what neighborhood within that city. For what its worth, my second guess is Kroiden is a 19 year old from the Philippines.

 

[The Penitent Man]

I'd find something hard and heavy to hit him (the 24 y/o man) in the head with, or choke him out, or wrestle him away from the kid. I'm 31 y/o and I weigh about 230 lbs. To take a life to save another life is morally questionable. In this case, I do not believe homicide is justiable, if it ever is.

How sad that the boy is already dead.

 

[MacFall]

The question here is not whether it is moral to take a life in defense. It's whether it is moral to prevent the death of an innocent, or not. If it is, then what happens to the murderer is not relevant.

 

[Macx]

I'd find something hard and heavy to hit him (the 24 y/o man) in the head with, or choke him out, or wrestle him away from the kid. I'm 31 y/o and I weigh about 230 lbs. To take a life to save another life is morally questionable. In this case, I do not believe homicide is justiable, if it ever is.

How sad that the boy is already dead.

Well, that the boy is already dead was why I posted the thread. Once is too many times. I realize there are some pacifist types that won't do more than call the police and wait for them to show up to draw chalk lines and tag toes. Action, any action becomes easier to do if you resolve it in your mind beforehand. I am all for less than lethal if you can manage it, but for those who can't . .. going lethal trumps doing nothing.

 

[quatona]

A city and a country makes a bit of a difference in the context of the conversation.

This may or may not be so (depending on the discussion), but since I didn´t say it doesn´t make a difference you are arguing against something you´d prefer to argue against over the argument I actually gave.

A city and a country hardly violate anyones internet anonymity.

I didn´t say it did. So whom or what are you arguing against?
(And, after all, with internet anonymity being intact you can claim to live whereever you want to claim you live.)

Check it out, I not only post my city but I post what neighborhood within that city.

That´s all fine and dandy, but that´s besides the point. Kroiden doesn´t want to post it, and this unwillingness doesn´t justify condescendence and insults.

For what its worth, my second guess is Kroiden is a 19 year old from the Philippines.

Guess away, guess away.

 

[Macx]

Thank you Mr. Thread-drift . . . how very on topic of you.

So you'll intervene if you think someone is being called on their bovine excrement unfairly. ..

But you wouldn't intervene to save a four year old child from being beaten and tortured to death . ..

What an interesting character you present.

 

[quatona]

Thank you Mr. Thread-drift . . .

Back at name calling again? Out of arguments?

how very on topic of you.

Well, I wasn´t the one who started the entire off-topic Tell-me-where-you-live-or-else-i´ll-call-you-names-business.

So you'll intervene if you think someone is being called on their bovine excrement unfairly. ..

Incorrect and loaded representation. I gave my opinion about pushing someone to revealing private information they don´t want to disclose.

But you wouldn't intervene to save a four year old child from being beaten and tortured to death . ..

Incorrect again: Yes, I would.

What an interesting character you present.

I find you interesting, as well.
But don´t let´s exchange compliments. It´s off-topic, and above I´ve learned you are concerned with keeping threads on topic.

 

[Macx]

But you wouldn't intervene to save a four year old child from being beaten and tortured to death . ..
​

Incorrect again: Yes, I would.

In what way? Please be specific.

 

[brinny]

The question here is not whether it is moral to take a life in defense. It's whether it is moral to prevent the death of an innocent, or not. If it is, then what happens to the murderer is not relevant.

Exactly.

 

[quatona]

In what way? Please be specific.

Doesn´t matter for the fact that you knowingly misrepresented me when saying I wouldn´t intervene.
I have already given you a couple of ways I could and would intervene, and since you have responded to them I can´t help but assuming that you had noticed that I did.

Besides, for to reject your implied accusation of being inconsistent ('here you intervene, there you don´t') it would already be sufficient to just voice my disapproval there as I did here.

 

[Kroiden]

So what I hear you saying is, not only do you lack the courage to stand up for a defenseless child, but you are also to scared of life to admit what city and country you are writting from. Okay, that is reasonable for a 9 year old . . . you have nothing to be ashamed of, in being young.

So full of grace. Bless you.