Would Adam and Eve have died anyway? (moved)

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



So "the man" became like the one of the "Us" after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. But that wasn't the reason he was kicked out. It seems he was kicked out because God was "afraid" the man would then go eat of the tree of life and live forever while knowing good and evil. He was already Godlike in knowledge.

I suppose one could assume Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree of life had they not eat from the other, but had they not, would they have died?

 

[Lenny3]

I think it was God's plan for them to have sinned in the first place.

They were made to fail.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

I think it was God's plan for them to have sinned in the first place.

They were made to fail.

If God's "plan" was for them to eat the fruit of the KoGaE, then it would not be a failure right? It would be a successful part of the plan.

 

[Lenny3]

If God's "plan" was for them to eat the fruit of the KoGaE, then it would not be a failure right? It would be a successful part of the plan.

Yes. I said that Adam and Eve were set up to fail, not the plan.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Yes. I said that Adam and Eve were set up to fail, not the plan.

Why do you think that was?

 

[Johnnz]

Adam and Eve were mortal. In God's eternal purposes Jesus and His incarnation are the only way for us to become adopted children. moving from a created to a familial relationship. Had the couple not sinned Jesus would still have come as on of Man so that could happen.

Adam and Eve were never created to Fall, only with the possibility and potential to act independently of God. We were created out of the relationship within the Godhead to share and participate in their Life. No way were we made to fail. God is not a sadist.

John
NZ

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Adam and Eve were mortal. In God's eternal purposes Jesus and His incarnation are the only way for us to become adopted children. moving from a created to a familial relationship. Had the couple not sinned Jesus would still have come as on of Man so that could happen.

Adam and Eve were never created to Fall, only with the possibility and potential to act independently of God. We were created out of the relationship within the Godhead to share and participate in their Life. No way were we made to fail. God is not a sadist.

John
NZ

Even if God knew/"planned" for them to fail, I don't think it's means God is a sadist. Knowing good and evil, though it brings death, may be the only way a free willed soul could willfully chose good over evil and become a self responsible autonomous being in concert with the Law of God. God catches all, living and dead.


IMHO, this would allow for willful, fully aware and volitional obedience rather than obedience out of subconscious ignorance, knowing nothing else.

Think of the potential energy of a combustion reaction, O2 and hydrogen gas can coexist without combining. A small spark is required to overcome the "inertia" of balance and cause a cascading chain reaction.

Perhaps Mankind required a nudge in the downward "evil" direction to cause a reverse push in man that would continue in an upward ascending direction....forever. If there was no down, we could not self define up to then orient and move in that direction.

Like the rudder on a ship, it points to the past but leads the ship straightly forwards. Without it, spin in circles and go nowhere.

 

[hedrick]

I don't take the creation accounts as historical. But since understanding them still matters theologically, I'll give you Calvin's answer:

It was God's plan all along for humans to have a finite lifetime on earth. Why would we want to live forever here? What changed with the fall wasn't the fact that we eventually transition to be with God, it's how that happens. Instead of a peaceful transition at the end of a long and full life, it becomes a matter of fear and suffering.

 

[hedrick]

I don't take the creation accounts as historical. But since understanding them still matters theologically, I'll give you Calvin's answer:

It was God's plan all along for humans to have a finite lifetime on earth. Why would we want to live forever here? What changed with the fall wasn't the fact that we eventually transition to be with God, it's how that happens. Instead of a peaceful transition at the end of a long and full life, it becomes a matter of fear and suffering.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

I don't take the creation accounts as historical. But since understanding them still matters theologically, I'll give you Calvin's answer:

It was God's plan all along for humans to have a finite lifetime on earth. Why would we want to live forever here? What changed with the fall wasn't the fact that we eventually transition to be with God, it's how that happens. Instead of a peaceful transition at the end of a long and full life, it becomes a matter of fear and suffering.

I have seen their roots in ancient Mesopotamian creation stories.

Forever might get boring but I could certainly use another 1000 or so years to live and perfect and eventually shed the physical body like a snake skin.

I see it like a tree: The point of the acorn planet in the soil is to sprout and leap up above the soils of material creation, but it does not leave the soil. After a rebirth by waters (sprouting) it begins to hold dominion over the darkness. After the rebirth by spirit (poking up above the soil to see it's Parent Tree and siblings) it holds full dominion overt the darkness and summons the soil to it's will making good fruit.

We must grow from the inside out regardless of what soil we now find ourselves planted in. Feeding the Name of the Tree of Life coded within us, this is how we naturally burst through the ego shell and enter the Kingdom of Heaven within us and all around us.

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, And he who is wise wins souls.

 

[Messy]

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



So "the man" became like the one of the "Us" after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. But that wasn't the reason he was kicked out. It seems he was kicked out because God was "afraid" the man would then go eat of the tree of life and live forever while knowing good and evil. He was already Godlike in knowledge.

I suppose one could assume Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree of life had they not eat from the other, but had they not, would they have died?

I think not, 'cause Romans 5 says:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all
Maybe the tree of Life was spiritual, eternal Life, this is eternal Life that they might know You. I think if they ate from that one instead of the other they would have really known Him and have become like Him. In the end we will be like Him, He will be all in all and eat from the tree of Life.

 

[Resha Caner]

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



So "the man" became like the one of the "Us" after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. But that wasn't the reason he was kicked out. It seems he was kicked out because God was "afraid" the man would then go eat of the tree of life and live forever while knowing good and evil. He was already Godlike in knowledge.

I suppose one could assume Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree of life had they not eat from the other, but had they not, would they have died?

For questions like this I have to ask why it matters.

But, yes, I read it similarly to you. God only forbade the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He allowed them to eat from any other tree (Gen 2:8-17). So, they were most likely eating from the tree of life, and it seems that is what probably sustained them. Kicking them out of the garden meant they could no longer eat from that tree, and therefore they died.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.



So "the man" became like the one of the "Us" after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. But that wasn't the reason he was kicked out. It seems he was kicked out because God was "afraid" the man would then go eat of the tree of life and live forever while knowing good and evil. He was already Godlike in knowledge.

I suppose one could assume Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree of life had they not eat from the other, but had they not, would they have died?

Taking the inferred meaning of the myth according to its story structure, yes, I think Adam and Eve would have died had they not been able to eat from the Tree of Life.

Come to think of it, not being able to eat from the Tree of Life IS why they died.