Would a Christian considered a Jew?

Catherineanne

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I'm not putting words in your mouth. I find no support for your claim
that Jews, as a group are any different than before Jesus. You see
differences, I don't.

One huge difference is that the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. That made a very significant difference to how Judaism was practiced, and the effect was also to split Christianity and Judaism further apart.
 
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SkyWriting

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One huge difference is that the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. That made a very significant difference to how Judaism was practiced, and the effect was also to split Christianity and Judaism further apart.

Perhaps. But people are people and there never was any difference between Jews and
anyone else other then focus of attention. "Gods chosen people" were called to act like Jews
then in the same way Christians are called act like Christians now.
Jews were a "type" of Christian. Jesus enlightened his Jewish disiples to the "Way"
and there are Jews for Jesus today. Focus is the only change.
 
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Righttruth

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A born again believer has been grafted in. Would they be considered a Jew? Why or why not?

Romans 11:11-24
Gentiles Grafted In
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion[a] mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Romans 10
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

1 Corinthians 12
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
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Dave-W

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Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Careful how you treat that verse. If 3each pairing is to be taken they way you take Jew and Greek, then if applied to male and female, it would say same sex marriage is ok - which it clearly is not.

Spiritual standing before the cross is eliminated. Functional distinctions remain - for EACH category.
 
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Righttruth

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Careful how you treat that verse. If 3each pairing is to be taken they way you take Jew and Greek, then if applied to male and female, it would say same sex marriage is ok - which it clearly is not.

People use all sorts of deviations and apply out of context for any verse in the Bible. Marriage is no way related to this verse.

Spiritual standing before the cross is eliminated. Functional distinctions remain - for EACH category.

Yes, the spiritual distinction before the cross is eliminated. Functional distinctions also should cease. Jew cannot be like a Jew with his old self and Greek like any other Greek.
 
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Dave-W

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Those were the birth pangs of new spiritual understanding, a kind of teething problems before transformed life from the old.
So that is your take on it?

Not so. Paul and James were 100% on the same page. Acts 15 applied ONLY to Gentile converts to Christianity. It did not apply to Jews, including Paul.

And those events came about AFTER Paul wrote Galatians and Romans.

In fact, if you read Acts 28, you will find that Paul is talking to the Jewish leaders in Rome and testifies that he has NEVER broken the Law of Moses, or even the Pharasaic oral tradition which he calls "the customs of our fathers."(v 17)
 
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Righttruth

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So that is your take on it?

Not so. Paul and James were 100% on the same page. Acts 15 applied ONLY to Gentile converts to Christianity. It did not apply to Jews, including Paul.

And those events came about AFTER Paul wrote Galatians and Romans.

In fact, if you read Acts 28, you will find that Paul is talking to the Jewish leaders in Rome and testifies that he has NEVER broken the Law of Moses, or even the Pharasaic oral tradition which he calls "the customs of our fathers."(v 17)

John 4:20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
21 Jesus *said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."


Jesus fulfilled the letter of the Law and taught to fulfill the Law by spirit which is more difficult to keep. It applied to all converts. Paul and apostles advised tolerance and understanding during transition before a matured spiritual growth. Paul accosted Peter for associating with Jews in old ways in the Gentile church of Galatians. Furthermore, he opposed the custom of circumcision.
 
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Dave-W

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Jesus fulfilled the letter of the Law
True
and taught to fulfill the Law by spirit which is more difficult to keep.
Also true
Paul accosted Peter for associating with Jews in old ways in the Gentile church of Galatians.
Read it a bit more carefully. Paul was on his case for DUPLICITY. Peter was one way with these people and another way with a different group.
Furthermore, he opposed the custom of circumcision.
If that was true, then WHY did Paul (who taught that circumcision obligated someone to the WHOLE LAW) immediately AFTER the decision of Acts 15 circumcise Timothy? (16.3)
 
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twin1954

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(Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

(Col 2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

(Col 2:18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

(Col 2:19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

(Col 2:20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

(Col 2:21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

(Col 2:22) Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

(Col 2:23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.



Claiming to keep the law is nothing but satisfying the flesh.
 
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Righttruth

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Read it a bit more carefully. Paul was on his case for DUPLICITY. Peter was one way with these people and another way with a different group.

Paul was right, but I don't agree with the way he handled the situation in an unchristian way!

If that was true, then WHY did Paul (who taught that circumcision obligated someone to the WHOLE LAW) immediately AFTER the decision of Acts 15 circumcise Timothy? (16.3)

It was a typical strategy of Paul to please-all to make it easier to reach the local majority: to win them by playing in their own game with least possible offense to them.
 
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Dave-W

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t was a typical strategy of Paul to please-all to make it easier to reach the local majority: to win them by playing in their own game with least possible offense to them.
And in doing so threw his young pal Timothy under the bus of legalism?

I don't think so.

Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
 
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Righttruth

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And in doing so threw his young pal Timothy under the bus of legalism?

I don't think so.

Timothy never bothered about it being a new convert from Greek background and ignorant of Judaism

Galatians 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

Not surprising! He did that to Timothy to ward off problems with Jews in the context, and in Galatians, he is speaking of typical understanding of Judaism.
 
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2win

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People use all sorts of deviations and apply out of context for any verse in the Bible. Marriage is no way related to this verse.



Yes, the spiritual distinction before the cross is eliminated. Functional distinctions also should cease. Jew cannot be like a Jew with his old self and Greek like any other Greek.
Thank you Righttruth for posting those scriotures; I didn't see any interpretation that you made for them; They just speak for themselves; that is the wonderful thing about the Word of God; Hebrews 4:12 realky comes to light here!
 
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Righttruth

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Thank you Righttruth for posting those scriotures; I didn't see any interpretation that you made for them; They just speak for themselves; that is the wonderful thing about the Word of God; Hebrews 4:12 realky comes to light here!

You are welcome. Reading the verses and listening to the Holy Spirit is the right understanding.
 
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Dave-W

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Timothy never bothered about it being a new convert from Greek background and ignorant of Judaism
Acts 16:1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek,

2 Timothy 1:5 For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.

If Tim's mom and grandmother were devout Jewish believers, why do you think he was "... ignorant of Judaism?"
Not surprising! He did that to Timothy to ward off problems with Jews in the context, and in Galatians, he is speaking of typical understanding of Judaism.
So you think Paul lied in Galatians? That Circ did NOT really put one " under obligation to keep the whole Law?"

Think about what you are really saying here.
 
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Righttruth

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Acts 16:1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek,

2 Timothy 1:5 For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.

If Tim's mom and grandmother were devout Jewish believers, why do you think he was "... ignorant of Judaism?"

Sorry, I didn't check on the background of Timothy. Thanks for correcting me.

So you think Paul lied in Galatians? That Circ did NOT really put one " under obligation to keep the whole Law?"

Think about what you are really saying here.

Anything can go on with Paul's strategy of double standards based on the context and his agenda. For ex:
Romans 3
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?


Galatians 5
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Galatians 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.


A new creature cannot tag on to the letter of the Law.
 
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Dave-W

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Anything can go on with Paul's strategy of double standards based on the context and his agenda.
Wow. You just threw most of the New Testament into doubt due to this supposed "double standard."

Paul had no double standard; and if you think he did, you are seriously misreading him.
 
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Righttruth

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Wow. You just threw most of the New Testament into doubt due to this supposed "double standard."

Paul had no double standard; and if you think he did, you are seriously misreading him.

Gospel of Jesus should be used as a filter to find out how much of Paul complements the words of the Lord. Furthermore, we have epistles of chosen apostles and others to double check on Paul's claims. One should not be carried away by his self-claims and scholarship ignoring the spiritual discernment possible through the Holy Spirit.
 
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