Steve Petersen
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What about Jews who lived in the Diaspora when the Temple was destroyed? Were their records all destroyed too?
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Though some may claim to they simply cannot for all the records were destroyed in 70 A. D.
The genealogies were kept by the priests and scribes and were destroyed. They were destroyed because the One for whom they had to be kept appeared at the appointed time and they were no longer needed to show His lineage.Source?
What about Jews who lived in the Diaspora when the Temple was destroyed? Were their records all destroyed too?
Do you include New Covenant Judaism in that statement?The Jewish religion today is not biblical. Judaism cannot exist without the Temple and sacrifices which is why it was destroyed in A.D. 70.
I recall that Paul said Gentiles were not required to observe Jewish religious laws and traditions, but Jews should remain observant of these practices.
So if we are spiritual Jews, does that mean we should observe the Torah and practice Jewish customs?
Also, in Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile.
If I have not asked this before I will ask now; which law have you actually kept? Do you keep a Sabbath?If you make a distinction between Jewish religious laws and traditions and the Law of Moses, then you would be correct that Gentiles are not required to observe Jewish religious laws and traditions. There is a theme throughout the Bible that we must obey God rather than man, so while we are not required to obey man's laws, we are required to obey God's.
Through faith in Messiah we are grafted into God's chosen people, Israel, which is not the same as saying that we have become spiritual Jews. But yes, as part of God's chosen people, we should observe the laws of the Torah that God has given to them, though we are not required to practice Jewish customs.
Paul was combating the idea that certain groups of people had a higher status when it came to being in Messiah, not denying the existence of men, women, free, slaves, Jews, and Gentiles.
[/quote]In any case, Gentiles are not Israelites. Israelites are descendants of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob, Gentiles are not.
We are grafted into the stock of Israel, but we are not Jews.
Just as a branch from a lemon tree that is grafted into an orange tree will still grow lemons; we have different expressions and fruit.
Bloodlines mean nothing now. They did mean something before Christ came because they were used to confirm His heritage from David.
Now they do not matter as God no longer uses the physical nation of Israel as His chosen people. We who believe are the Israel of God, a holy people and a spiritual body.
If I have not asked this before I will ask now; which law have you actually kept? Do you keep a Sabbath?
What you are actually doing is destroying the law by bringing it down to a level that you think you can keep. By doing so you have made the high and holy law to be a set of guidelines. You destroy the holiness of the law, you destroy the purpose of the law which is to drive us to Christ, you destroy the unbending nature of the law.By keeping the law, I am meaning that I practice obedience to it and repentance when I break it, not that I keep it perfectly, so I've kept many of them including the Sabbath. The law was never given for the purpose of trying to keep it perfectly in order to become justified, but rather it was given as instructions for how those who have been justified by faith should act by faith in a way builds a relationship between God and His people. I think many of the laws I am in agreement with most Christians about keeping, but there are some such as keeping God's Sabbath, Festivals, and dietary laws where there is disagreement.
Deuteronomy 10:12-13 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I am commanding you today for your good?
Do you have faith that God's commands are for our own good? If so, then the way to live by faith is to live in obedience to them in accordance with Messiah's example.
In 1 Peter 1:14-16, we are told to have a holy conduct and verse 16 says that we are to be holy not because we are under any particular covenant or because we should be like Jews, but because God is holy. Furthermore, verse 16 references Leviticus, where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct that involve keeping His dietary laws and holy days. So we are to do what God has revealed to be holy, righteous, and good in the Mosaic law because God is holy, righteous, and good, not because of any covenant. It's about identify with who God is and walking in line with His character, now about identifying with Jews. Anyone who wants to do what is for their own good by acting in line with God's character can do what is holy, righteous, and good by following the Mosaic law regardless of any covenant, but as part of the New Covenant we are instructed to have such a conduct (1 Peter 1:14-16, 1 John 3:10, Ephesians 2:10).
What you are actually doing is destroying the law by bringing it down to a level that you think you can keep. By doing so you have made the high and holy law to be a set of guidelines. You destroy the holiness of the law, you destroy the purpose of the law which is to drive us to Christ, you destroy the unbending nature of the law.
What you are actually doing is destroying the law by bringing it down to a level that you think you can keep. By doing so you have made the high and holy law to be a set of guidelines. You destroy the holiness of the law, you destroy the purpose of the law which is to drive us to Christ, you destroy the unbending nature of the law.
Do you believe that God can do anything except cause His people to obey His law? It's not about bringing the law down to our level, but about God bringing us up to His level. The law drives us to Messiah because it is all about him and it is he who can pay our penalty for transgressing it and who can cause us to obey it so that we might meet its righteous requirement (Romans 8:4). God put His Spirit in us to cause us to obey His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Our sanctification is about being made like Messiah in his obedience to the law and when He who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Messiah, we will be made to be in perfect obedience to it (Philippians 1:6). Our salvation is from sin, so it involves being saved from the penalty of breaking the law, but it also necessarily involves being saved from sinning, or in other words, being trained to obey the things that God has revealed to be godly, holy, righteous, and good, and being trained to avoid doing the things that God has revealed to be ungodly, sinful, and lawless:
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
After reading through these pages, these questions came to mind...
1. Are we not considered, as the Church, One New man where there is neither Jew nor Gentile?
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (Eph 2:15)
2. What land promises were given to the Church as were given to Abraham and his descendents?
3. What promises of dispersion from any land was given to the Church and what promise of a future regathering as was given to the Jews?
4. Is not a true Jew simply a distinction between a Jew who is one by natural birth only and one who is a natural born Jew but who also has the faith of Abraham...the latter being a true Jew?
Sounds like Dispensationalism.After reading through these pages, these questions came to mind...
1. Are we not considered, as the Church, One New man where there is neither Jew nor Gentile?
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (Eph 2:15)
2. What land promises were given to the Church as were given to Abraham and his descendents?
3. What promises of dispersion from any land was given to the Church and what promise of a future regathering as was given to the Jews?
4. Is not a true Jew simply a distinction between a Jew who is one by natural birth only and one who is a natural born Jew but who also has the faith of Abraham...the latter being a true Jew?
What you mistake is living like a true believer and keeping the law. A sheep can do nothing else but act like a sheep and that means it follows its Master. But we do not need a set of rules to follow in order to do so. I will give you an illustration:Do you believe that God can do anything except cause His people to obey His law? It's not about bringing the law down to our level, but about God bringing us up to His level. The law drives us to Messiah because it is all about him and it is he who can pay our penalty for transgressing it and who can cause us to obey it so that we might meet its righteous requirement (Romans 8:4). God put His Spirit in us to cause us to obey His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Our sanctification is about being made like Messiah in his obedience to the law and when He who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Messiah, we will be made to be in perfect obedience to it (Philippians 1:6). Our salvation is from sin, so it involves being saved from the penalty of breaking the law, but it also necessarily involves being saved from sinning, or in other words, being trained to obey the things that God has revealed to be godly, holy, righteous, and good, and being trained to avoid doing the things that God has revealed to be ungodly, sinful, and lawless:
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
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