Worship, worship songs, CCM is it a deviation?

[seeker2122]

I grew up in the church. I love most of the songs we sing. The lyrics
are beautiful and the sounds/tune/melody is beautiful.

But I have started to wonder for many years now how much are we
deviating from the true worship with all this music and CCM which are looking
more like rock concerts / christian concerts, where it seems the emphasis is
heavily placed on the people's voices and how beautiful it is or the instruments
and what great brand names they use and the quality of the sound it produces.

Isn't that sort of a deviation of worship? I don't even think those should be a real
issue when it comes to worship. I suppose for "corporate worship" yes, you need to
have a certain level of professionalism, expertise, talent, gifting just as we would expect
a preacher to have expertise/gift in speaking, delivering sermons etc., but you and I
both know that at the heart of it, everyone can preach, everyone can minister, and
it is everyone's calling to do so (meaning, locally with your friends, family, strangers
on the street etc). You don't need to be a Billy Graham to preach.

Same with music. For corporate worship, you wouldn't want an incompetent person
or group trying to lead/perform music when they don't know how to play or sing BUT
that is just for corporate. I feel that true worship, God doesn't care if you have a crappy
voice or can't play music instruments. Moaning, humming, singing out of tune is beautiful
to God if it is worship done in truth, faith, spirit, and from the heart.

Romans 12:2 says offering our lives and bodies up as living sacrifices is the true worship
God seeks/desires. It's not about how nice your voice is or how nice equipment you have
or what a great concert you lead on stage with 100,000 audience members.

There is also reason why it seems that muslim faith doesn't allow music like Christianity modern day music because it is haram. I can sort of see why. Modern day music is
very sentimental, emotional, manipulates your mood and the idea that because the music sounds so heavenly and so good, we say, "The Holy Spirit is here with us now". What? So if we didn't play beautiful music, the HS is not with us? Why would we only get goosebumps when we hear elegant music and voices and then conflate it to mean that God's presence is somehow more vivid and closer to us than we there is no music and we are alone in the dark or in an office, room, park, mall, building, train, bus etc.

I'm struggling to find any clarity because having grown up in the church, I can fully confess that music did and does manipulate my feelings. It does make me "feel" like God is nearer, like the Spirit is present, and we call it "spiritual high". I think we are deviating if we experience spiritual highs and lows because of mood/feelings. Isn't there a clear and present danger to this? That's why sometimes I prefer worship to have little to no music as possible so that we can feel the Spirit as genuine as possible without being manipulated via emotions through touchy music that can trick us into feeling like somehow the Spirit is now closer because of it.

I'm wary of Christian sentimentalism. It does scare me.

 

[*LILAC]

Spencer Smith covers alot of information about CCM on his channel on youtube. Check it out.

I left the church because it was more of a rock concert than of singing hymns and spiritual songs. I won't be going back to that because it doesn't glorify God. Then, after I left, I found out a host of other issues hidden within the church! If you're feeling that tug, pay attention and don't let up until you get an answer. There are many "spirits" out there and yes, they can be attached to music. Be wary of these things.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I suspect all worship is pleasing to God, including contemporary Christian music. That said, it's certainly not my preference. I don't find ccm inspirational, nor do I find most of it to be very good music. I mean, if you can't sing it in the shower, what's the point?

 

[Halbhh]

I grew up in the church. I love most of the songs we sing. The lyrics
are beautiful and the sounds/tune/melody is beautiful.

But I have started to wonder for many years now how much are we
deviating from the true worship with all this music and CCM which are looking
more like rock concerts / christian concerts, where it seems the emphasis is
heavily placed on the people's voices and how beautiful it is or the instruments
and what great brand names they use and the quality of the sound it produces.

Isn't that sort of a deviation of worship? I don't even think those should be a real
issue when it comes to worship. I suppose for "corporate worship" yes, you need to
have a certain level of professionalism, expertise, talent, gifting just as we would expect
a preacher to have expertise/gift in speaking, delivering sermons etc., but you and I
both know that at the heart of it, everyone can preach, everyone can minister, and
it is everyone's calling to do so (meaning, locally with your friends, family, strangers
on the street etc). You don't need to be a Billy Graham to preach.

Same with music. For corporate worship, you wouldn't want an incompetent person
or group trying to lead/perform music when they don't know how to play or sing BUT
that is just for corporate. I feel that true worship, God doesn't care if you have a crappy
voice or can't play music instruments. Moaning, humming, singing out of tune is beautiful
to God if it is worship done in truth, faith, spirit, and from the heart.

Romans 12:2 says offering our lives and bodies up as living sacrifices is the true worship
God seeks/desires. It's not about how nice your voice is or how nice equipment you have
or what a great concert you lead on stage with 100,000 audience members.

There is also reason why it seems that muslim faith doesn't allow music like Christianity modern day music because it is haram. I can sort of see why. Modern day music is
very sentimental, emotional, manipulates your mood and the idea that because the music sounds so heavenly and so good, we say, "The Holy Spirit is here with us now". What? So if we didn't play beautiful music, the HS is not with us? Why would we only get goosebumps when we hear elegant music and voices and then conflate it to mean that God's presence is somehow more vivid and closer to us than we there is no music and we are alone in the dark or in an office, room, park, mall, building, train, bus etc.

I'm struggling to find any clarity because having grown up in the church, I can fully confess that music did and does manipulate my feelings. It does make me "feel" like God is nearer, like the Spirit is present, and we call it "spiritual high". I think we are deviating if we experience spiritual highs and lows because of mood/feelings. Isn't there a clear and present danger to this? That's why sometimes I prefer worship to have little to no music as possible so that we can feel the Spirit as genuine as possible without being manipulated via emotions through touchy music that can trick us into feeling like somehow the Spirit is now closer because of it.

I'm wary of Christian sentimentalism. It does scare me.

I like your post, and it's great you ask about some questions that are coming up for you. Let me address a couple of those.
We are not all the same, so it will always be so, in every church, that some people are naturally more emotionally effusive than others, and that's good. It's good that some are more emotional and some less so. That's God's design. Then on top of that, He also gives us variously differing gifts...which we are each to use for His kingdom.

Since you've addressed several things, let me summarize things I've heard over the years from people in a wide variety of various churches of many types/denominations/places/decades about the music:

Variously, at different times in different types of churches or such, over decades, some have told me after services they are put off by:

• just a showy performance -- too slick
• more like a concert: congregation not singing along
• too loud or too hard to hear voices over the organ
• rock music (or country, or 'old stuff', etc.)
• not very biblically based lyrics (this is one that bothers me any time I hear lyrics that contradict what scripture actually says)
• traditional hymns (even the ones we like) sung were no one seems to have any joy in their singing, but the congregation sings drudgingly (as if mopping the floor or discharging a duty they wish was over already...)
• one sound style like heavy organ only, so every song sounds the same
• all contemporary songs but never any of the loved traditional hymns
• all old traditional hymns but no new ones (as if all inspired song writing ended over 100 years ago)
• voices of the lead singer(s) badly out of tune to the melody (which only bothers a few people I think and most love those songs even with an out of tune voice being amplified...)

Put simply, the most ideal situation is when we sing songs the congregation loves and sings along with that fit scripture perfectly, and we worship God together.

And we'd be happy enough if that happens just often, and can easily tolerate that not every song will fit that in reality....

You said such an important thing I want to repeat:


"you and I both know that at the heart of it, everyone
can preach, everyone can minister, and it is everyone's calling to do so (meaning, locally with your friends, family, strangers on the street etc). "

Amen!

1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church.

 

[seeker2122]

Thanks for the replies.
I hope to hear more responses.

Yes, I fully agree that whatever the style or type of music is used, the lyrics must be biblical/Scriptural accurate and not just wishy-washy songs about feelings and subjectivity.

Of course for personal songs, people can write up their own lyrics like a prayer or poem to God
from their own heart just as a way of self-expression, but of course those songs shouldn't be
selected as part of the liturgy or worship in church services. I also weigh heavily on biblical
accuracy and origin of the lyrics of songs.

Actually, I do find a lot of CCM songs like Hillsong to have lyrics that come straight from scripture or some of my old sunday school songs that I had no idea where scriptural but later on in life looked back and discovered the lyrics to those songs actually did come directly from the bible (some entirely and others just in certain bits and pieces within the song conflated with other humanly poetry/subjectivism/feelings).

But there is another reason why I ask. I always felt a deep passion towards cinematography, visual media production such as music videos, movies, and things like that. I've always wanted to direct or produce my own music videos using the artistic eye that I consider to have a gifting in. I always considered myself to be somewhat gifted in being able to visualize and create visually compelling or emotional captivating scenes and moments (combining music and video).

The problem with this is sometimes I think to myself, am I sentimentalizing christianity and Jesus because in reality, they would not be portrayed that way. Life situations would be so romantic, dramatic, inspiring, like the way I want to produce it. So I almost feel like I am just stirring up a lot of passion and emotions in myself and people but it seems almost like idolatry that I am worshipping and in awe of the visual production/effects/artistry of my cinematography or captivating music rather than the simple and truthful reality of Jesus/scripture/realistic moments.

For example, everytime I am listening or worshipping along to some Hillsong type of songs, and seeing the lyrics up on the screen, I am picturing and visualizing what I would produce if I could make a music video for that song. I am visualizing the actors, the props, the color tones, the angles, the effects, of how I would want to produce a captivating of says Paul in shackles or Jesus coming from the clouds or Elijah bringing fire down from heaven or Peter walking on water so on and so on....and I get very emotional and moved by my own concepts and plans to make those videos. Am I really worshipping God or am I pseudo-idolizing my own lust or addiction to passionate film, cinematography, movement, artistry, effects ??

I am so confused because one side of me thinks it's not very true worship because I'm adding too much fluff and emotional manipulation to the scenes but the other side of me thinks this would make the gospel, the bible message more powerful by showing people great cinematography of these biblical stories/situations.

I think this sort of drifts towards the danger of idolatry. This is also why in muslim faith, they don't allow you to make any images or objects for God like Christians like to do when we wear cross necklaces, or jesus statues, or other objects or symbols to make artistry of God. I don't really know and I'm confused as to what to do because I am very passionate about this and want to make stuff, but I also know that Jesus/HS/Scripture is sufficient on its own and doesn't need to be propped up with fancy videos and artistry to make it more powerful and captivating to others. If that was true, then we'd be saying that the power of the HS and the Bible isn't enough, but that we rely on using talented artists, directors, producers, videographers to make glitzy, fancy, powerful videos to make Jesus/HS/Scripture powerful.

 

[Tolworth John]

I love most of the songs we sing. The lyrics
are beautiful and the sounds/tune/melody is beautiful.

And what about the surmon. Does it cause you to think? Are you chalenged about your behaviour, attitudes etc?
If not talk to the minister, ask why his sermons do not challenge you or encourage you in your Christian life.

If you get no revelavent responce, start looking for a church where the sermon does challenge you.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm struggling to find any clarity because having grown up in the church, I can fully confess that music did and does manipulate my feelings. It does make me "feel" like God is nearer, like the Spirit is present, and we call it "spiritual high".

Your own words says it all. Why don't you take a long break from CCM and get into His Word and prayer. See where you land in your relationship with Him.
Blessings

 

[ViaCrucis]

Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi. Literally "the rule of prayer, the rule of belief, the rule of living". This Latin phrase has been an historic axiom of Christian worship, meaning that the form of our worship--our prayers, our hymns, all of it--is what we believe, and thus worship and belief is how we live.

It is not only true of the past, but also true today: the things we are confessing together when we pray and when we sing is going to be the shape and form which our beliefs take. In a way this is actually just common sense, if the content of what we are doing together in church is saying something, then that is what will shape what we believe--it's the way most Christians get their theological training. Most of us aren't attending multiple years of seminary or other forms of academia, or digesting tons of theological materials--we are living our lives day to day trying to live as Christians, and it is when we come together for worship that we are hearing and confessing the things of faith. If what is happening, therefore, on Sunday morning is teaching bad theology, then the Faithful are going to have bad theology.

Why, for example, do we meet so many Christians who have a very poor understanding of some elementary Christian teaching, such as the Trinity and the Incarnation? Why do so many Christians mistakenly believe that Christianity is about going to heaven when we die and to spend eternity as disembodied spirits floating around "up there", rather than what Scripture and the Christian Church have always taught: There will be a resurrection of the body, and God is going to make all things new, setting all creation to rights and renewing it in the Age to Come. And the simple answer is that these things aren't being communicated clearly in our worship.

Why do so many Christians come to believe that the Christian's relationship with God is entirely personal and internal experience, rather than that the Christian's relationship with God is found in the Person and work of Jesus Christ? Well, just think about and look at a lot of the music that is being sung, and look at the form and content of the prayers being prayed.

And all of this, then, is what shapes our lives as Christians. When we are dismissed from the sanctuary and go out into the world, to live out our vocations as Christians in our day-to-day, what has shaped us in that? What we believe about God, what we believe about Jesus, what we believe about Christ's work and mission, and about the Holy Spirit, and about the Church, and about our relationship to God is going to affect every facet of our Christian life--for better or for worse.

So when worship ceases to be Christ-centered, biblical, and theologically sound; and it instead becomes something entirely different. It's going to negatively impact everything--what and how we believe, and how we live.

Some think the problem is "style" or that the presence of a drum kit or an acoustic guitar is the issue. It's not. Though things become deeply problematic when worship becomes even worse in the form of worshiptainment. It is right to be bothered by the "worship as a rock concert" phenomenon; but we shouldn't think that the problem is merely one of external "style", rather the problem is in the actual substance and content itself.

I don't want to be dismissive or antagonistic in saying this, but I have frequently found that one of the most ironic "worship songs" that has been popular over the past ~25 years is "Heart of Worship" by the band Delirious? (they were incredibly popular when I was a teenager in youth group in the late 90's).

Let's consider the chorus,

"I'm comin' back to the heart of worship
And it's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus

I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it
When it's all about You
It's all about You, Jesus"

I'm not attacking these lyrics. But let's consider the irony in how often these words are sung in the context of worship which is frequently, routinely, not about Jesus at all. The words are "It's all about You, Jesus", but is it? Is it about Him when the focus is on my personal experience of God in the moment?

What is it we are ultimately confessing? What is it that we are now believing? The irony is in thinking that worship is about us coming before God to give Him something that He needs, rather than that it is about God coming to meet us in our need of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in our need of faith in the faithlessness of life and of this world. I don't need a personal experience of the Divine, I need faith to trust that the promises of God in Jesus Christ and His Gospel are true, and that will keep me and hold me another day. That I might believe both today and tomorrow.

How often has, in many ways, worship become little more than singing to ourselves in the mirror.

O Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kees Boer]

I like your post, and it's great you ask about some questions that are coming up for you. Let me address a couple of those.
We are not all the same, so it will always be so, in every church, that some people are naturally more emotionally effusive than others, and that's good. It's good that some are more emotional and some less so. That's God's design. Then on top of that, He also gives us variously differing gifts...which we are each to use for His kingdom.

Since you've addressed several things, let me summarize things I've heard over the years from people in a wide variety of various churches of many types/denominations/places/decades about the music:

Variously, at different times in different types of churches or such, over decades, some have told me after services they are put off by:

• just a showy performance -- too slick
• more like a concert: congregation not singing along
• too loud or too hard to hear voices over the organ
• rock music (or country, or 'old stuff', etc.)
• not very biblically based lyrics (this is one that bothers me any time I hear lyrics that contradict what scripture actually says)
• traditional hymns (even the ones we like) sung were no one seems to have any joy in their singing, but the congregation sings drudgingly (as if mopping the floor or discharging a duty they wish was over already...)
• one sound style like heavy organ only, so every song sounds the same
• all contemporary songs but never any of the loved traditional hymns
• all old traditional hymns but no new ones (as if all inspired song writing ended over 100 years ago)
• voices of the lead singer(s) badly out of tune to the melody (which only bothers a few people I think and most love those songs even with an out of tune voice being amplified...)

Put simply, the most ideal situation is when we sing songs the congregation loves and sings along with that fit scripture perfectly, and we worship God together.

And we'd be happy enough if that happens just often, and can easily tolerate that not every song will fit that in reality....

You said such an important thing I want to repeat:


"you and I both know that at the heart of it, everyone
can preach, everyone can minister, and it is everyone's calling to do so (meaning, locally with your friends, family, strangers on the street etc). "

Amen!

1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church.

Most of the Old Testament is written in Hebrew. If you look at the Hebrew there are extra marks in It. These are actually notes. (I'm not talking about the nikut). The Hebrew Bible was meant to be sung. We only sing Scripture Songs here and people love It. They have hundreds of Passages memorized and we use all sorts of styles in the music. Of course they are in Spanish. I can give you the link, where you can download them, if you would like to hear them.

 

[Halbhh]

Most of the Old Testament is written in Hebrew. If you look at the Hebrew there are extra marks in It. These are actually notes. (I'm not talking about the nikut). The Hebrew Bible was meant to be sung. We only sing Scripture Songs here and people love It. They have hundreds of Passages memorized and we use all sorts of styles in the music. Of course they are in Spanish. I can give you the link, where you can download them, if you would like to hear them.

Sure, I love to add new music to my very large number of favorites.

It's nice when we here at our church at times are singing a psalm word for word, as we do especially at certain times of the year.

Now, of course, it's also often quite good when a song simply has key phrasing from scripture, too. So, there are many types of great scripturally based songs, but yes, the word-for-word is so sweet, and it has its place in the large variety of inspired songs that correctly align to scripture.

 

[Kees Boer]

Sure, I love to add new music to my very large number of favorites.

It's nice when we here at our church at times are singing a psalm word for word, as we do especially at certain times of the year.

Now, of course, it's also often quite good when a song simply has key phrasing from scripture, too. So, there are many types of great scripturally based songs, but yes, the word-for-word is so sweet, and it has its place in the large variety of inspired songs that correctly align to scripture.

This is a sample of the music we put together. Does anyone know a good singer that can sing in English these Songs. We already have the Words ready.

Scripture Songs Sample - Google Drive

 

[Quiet Soul]

Yes, I agree with the OP. Sometimes CCM can be too much about the person then about God.

 

[BobRyan]

I grew up in the church. I love most of the songs we sing. The lyrics
are beautiful and the sounds/tune/melody is beautiful.

But I have started to wonder for many years now how much are we
deviating from the true worship with all this music and CCM which are looking
more like rock concerts

I agree that rock-concert atmosphere distracts from worship and the still small voice of God speaking to the heart.