World wide Flood vs Local Flood

[MQTA]

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. 11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. 14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Was Eden right where it became into four heads?

 

[JohnR7]

Was Eden right where it became into four heads?

Eden could have been all of modern day Turkey. The problem is not finding the land of Eden, the problem is to find the garden that was in the land of Eden. If the garden is still even there. The Bible says that next in beauty to the garden is the cedar forests in Lebanon. That is where Solomon got the wood to build the temple and a lot of things in the temple. There are parts of that still there, and some of the cedar trees are over 2000 years old.

http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=58495068

 

[Drotar]

I have a question:

A literal reading of the flood texts brings us to the conclusion that the earth was submerged in water for about a year.

A literal reading of the first two chapters leads us to the conclusion that the earth was a Pangea, as most theologians believe.

Most YEC's then believe that it was during this year that the continents drifted away from each other.

How would the garden still exist after the flood? And how do we know that the location it was once in isn't in India now or whatever?

 

[JohnR7]

How would the garden still exist after the flood? And how do we know that the location it was once in isn't in India now or whatever?

The Garden of Eden was in the Land of Eden. We know that it was at the beginning of the Tigris, Euphrates Rivers. It could still be there, but God has it hidden away so no one could find it.

There could have been more than one "Eden". From what we know about Biodiversity, there would be ever reason to believe that there were five or six Edens. But Science now is saying that there was only one "Eve" and one "Adam".

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

I thought God set an angel with a flaming sword to guard Eden.

Now there are more than one? This is harder to keep up than eastern mythos.

 

[JohnR7]

Now there are more than one?

Actually, that was a special on PBS: "The Living Edens".

 

[LiAnne]

I don't think the bible says the angel actually had a flaming sword. It was an angel AND a flaming sword.

 

[artybloke]

Wouldn't a flaming sword have caused a bit of damage with all that flamable organic material around in the Garden?

 

[zeontes]

The Biblical story of the flood has always fascinated me. Until recently I thought that the date was pretty well fixed from the Biblical timeline. But, I have come to the conclusion that we must have more time that is not counted in the timeline. The dates that can be verified from historical records and scientific studies of tree rings for example do not allow the flood to have occured as close to us time wise as has been suggested by Bullinger and others. I have begun to wonder if the last glacial age may have been after the flood. The flood could have very well disturbed the climate to result in massive glaciation and subsequent lowering of the oceans. This would explain the spread of animals and people to all corners of the world, and their later developed differences due to speciation and natural selection. If this is the case, the spread of humans and the use of carbon dating would fit much better with the Biblical record.

The Bible does not specify with what we consider historical exactness the date of the flood. Anyone who has dealt with the Biblical time line has to recognize that there are verses that appear to be inconsistent, but with most inconsistancies the fault lies in our understanding. The year in scientific terms is 365.25 days, I do not think that it is the same in the Bible. Clue me in if I am wrong.

 

[Jet Black]

Clue me in if I am wrong.

if you are proposing a global flood (it seems you are) then that has been falsified already.

 

[NeoGraven]

A global flood IS verified and accepted by many world scientists, both Christian and secular. They simply differ when it comes to admitting that God caused it.

I have read through this thread a couple times, what is the actual argument that Noah's flood was local again?

 

[zeontes]

if you are proposing a global flood (it seems you are) then that has been falsified already.

The concept of falsifying that a global flood occurred seems strange to me. How was it falsified?

The geological data does not do so, ice core samples do not do so to my knowledge, I really am curious of the proof that you have. A global flood seems totally possible and may have had a causal relationship to climatic changes and possibly may have even affected the tilting of the planet.

 

[PhantomLlama]

A global flood IS verified and accepted by many world scientists, both Christian and secular. They simply differ when it comes to admitting that God caused it.

You appear to be using different definitions of the words 'verified', 'accepted' and 'many' to the rest of us. Is english not your first language?


Seriously, if someone told you that a majority, or even a significant minority of scientists think a global flood happened, they are wrong. Almost no scientists think a global flood happened, the ones that do tend to not be geologists or other appropriate fields, or to be members of organisations like AIG that require their members to sign away their scientific integrity upon entry.

 

[PhantomLlama]

The concept of falsifying that a global flood occurred seems strange to me. How was it falsified?

There is a comprehensive rundown here. Basically, the idea that there was a global flood violates more scientific principles than the whole of Star Trek combined.

 

[Routerider]

The concept of falsifying that a global flood occurred seems strange to me. How was it falsified?

The geological data does not do so, ice core samples do not do so to my knowledge, I really am curious of the proof that you have. A global flood seems totally possible and may have had a causal relationship to climatic changes and possibly may have even affected the tilting of the planet.

Ice core samples do not pose as evidence for a global flood....especially one that supposedly happened only 4400 years ago. The ice sheets have been around for millenia...this shouldn't be so if the Noahic flood story is literally true. Ask any honest, well trained Geologist...the evidence for a global flood just isn't there.

 

[Data]

A global flood IS verified and accepted by many world scientists, both Christian and secular. They simply differ when it comes to admitting that God caused it.

Ugh, I don't think it's accepted by any real, researching scientists. Fact is, that there is utterly no evidence for it, when there should be entirely massive effects that should be able to be seen in every piece of land in the entire world, but *gasp* there isn't! Look at a nearby cliff - if there was a global flood, it wouldn't look that way.

Seriously, go to a university geology department and ask around, every single person will laugh at the absurdity of even suggesting that they beleive a freaking global flood.

 

[Mistermystery]

A global flood IS verified

No it's not. Verfied means you can prove that, so where is your evidence?

and accepted by many world scientists, both Christian and secular.

No it's not. There's no increase or decrease in the people that believe that the global flood exsisted, so no dice there. Got any evidence for the number of people who believe in said flood? Because I can't find much about it.

I have read through this thread a couple times, what is the actual argument that Noah's flood was local again?

because the global flood has been falsified? on many fields?

 

[Mistermystery]

The concept of falsifying that a global flood occurred seems strange to me. How was it falsified?

I've always wanted to do that:
Here have a link you probably won't click/read anyways.

The geological data does not do so,

They do. Read point 6 for a small synopsys.

ice core samples do not do so to my knowledge,

They do. Read point 6 for a small synopsys. Click here if you even want to know more, or click here for a diffrent source. a small aside from that website:

Ice cores contain an abundance of climate information --more so than any other natural recorder of climate such as tree rings or sediment layers. Although their record is short (in geologic terms), it can be highly detailed. An ice core from the right site can contain an uninterrupted, detailed climate record extending back hundreds of thousands of years. This record can include temperature, precipitation , chemistry and gas composition of the lower atmosphere, volcanic eruptions, solar variability, sea-surface productivity and a variety of other climate indicators. It is the simultaneity of these properties recorded in the ice that makes ice cores such a powerful tool in paleoclimate research.

If there would ever be a global flood as large as you propose it would have been noticable like ... something... very noticable.

I really am curious of the proof that you have.

And I am really really really curious what proof you have. Go on. Endulge me. you probably won't but still, go ahead and try me.

 

[Jet Black]

The concept of falsifying that a global flood occurred seems strange to me. How was it falsified?

The geological data does not do so, ice core samples do not do so to my knowledge, I really am curious of the proof that you have. A global flood seems totally possible and may have had a causal relationship to climatic changes and possibly may have even affected the tilting of the planet.

primarily it was falsified by finding things that could not occur as a result of a flood. There are a number of these from massive salt deposits, lake varves, bioturbidity, fossil sorting, complex features (oklo phenomenon) and so on. Something like a catastophic global event would leave a global feature, such as the KT boundary where there is a globally matching layer which contains a high concentration of Iridium - a very rare element, and there is none that would match up to a flood.