World of Warcraft. evil?

TheBrad, if you come back to this site, I just wanted you to know that I believe you dad is right about warcraft being evil. I think warcraft is a nice trick to get good people into witchcraft.

doggy

cccs said:

I think warcraft is a nice trick to get good people into witchcraft.

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How so?

I play the game, but if it ever starts to take your focus or heart off your relationship with Christ then it is a problem. Remember to keep him as your center TheBrad

World of Warcraft is evil and it's a sin.

tjjefferson2 said:

World of Warcraft is evil and it's a sin.

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I caught your previous line about witchcraft before you altered it to this. Try reading my post before responding.

And you still have yet to back up this statement, but you HAVE proven to me that you're completely unwilling you open your mind to anything. I have done all I can at this point.

Jesus wouldn't play World of Warcraft.... of course, he wouldn't vote Republican either, but that doesn't make it a sin....

I believe that since the content such as demons and magic is a result of digital code in-game and nothing else, it is thus exempt from the "rules" as we know them.

I mean, considering that witchcraft IS indeed real, the differences between WoW's digital magic and REAL magic are easily discernable. Would I, in real life, charge up a fireball in my hand before throwing it at an archrival? No. And I believe that real magic in this world does not actually operate like this. The way magic works in WoW and the real world are different.

What concerns me is that most Christians I know get all huffy over the fact that FICTIONAL demons are on TV or in a book or even in a game like WoW. Now I'm aware the Bible tells us somewhere NOT TO PLAY WITH DEMONS, and I'm inclined to agree due to the dangers involved. However, while you do indeed interact with demons in WoW and other games, albeit in a hostile manner, the fact remains that YOU ARE NOT INTERACTING WITH DEMONS AT ALL WHEN WATCHING THEM ON TV, IN A FILM OR WHEN READING A BOOK.
How can you get so huffy over the fact that there's a demon in the film or in the thriller novel you are reading? Are you "playing with demons" as the Bible says by reading the book or watching the screen? No.

I've also been reading through Romans 14. The author (Tertius, I'm sure) believes in the Lord Jesus Christ that nothing in itself is inherently evil, but can be evil only to those who let themselves be affected negatively by it. But that's just my interpretation. He also says not to let what is good for us be spoken of as evil, which I view as an excellent reason to counter such claims with well-thought out arguments.


Actually I'm pro-choice on that matter. We were given free will by God, and we have no right to take that away from others. Not everyone is a Christian, and we certainly have no right to force non-Christians, even if they are homosexuals, to operate on our terms.

[The Ark] certainly wasn't capable of holding all the creatures it said it did, and it certainly didn't float atop a world-wide flood.

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I believe evolution played a part in this. Now I'm not talking about ape-to-man evolution over millions of years - that's just wrong. However, there is no denying that if you took two of every species of animal and bug today, you wouldn't be able to fit them all on the Ark - which is why I believe that the species in those times have evolved into thousands of different strains yet still retaining much of their original form from the end of the Flood. Read up on your Biology.

Ark

Controverse said:

However, while you do indeed interact with demons in WoW and other games

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While the rest of your post is largely reasonable to this point, I have to stop you here. You do not interact with demons in WoW. You do not cast spells in WoW. You do not slay creatures in WoW. You do nothing but play a fantasy character in a fantasy world interacting with fake demons, casting fake spells and slaying imaginary creatures.

I believe evolution played a part in this. Now I'm not talking about ape-to-man evolution over millions of years - that's just wrong.

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Oh for pete's sake. Evolutionary theory is not wrong. If you want to argue that it is, somehow, head over to the CvE or Origins Theology forums where we'll be happy to set you right.

Dannager said:

While the rest of your post is largely reasonable to this point, I have to stop you here. You do not interact with demons in WoW. You do not cast spells in WoW. You do not slay creatures in WoW. You do nothing but play a fantasy character in a fantasy world interacting with fake demons, casting fake spells and slaying imaginary creatures.

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I know that. You probably mistook what I meant.

Here's what I was trying to state in defense of the game:

You do interact with demons in the game. However, these demons are of a digital, fictional kind, as is the magic and all manner of life, entities and creatures found within. When you kill another player, you are only temporarily subduing the player's avatar (i.e. digital representation). There's what I was trying to state.

You do interact with demons in a hostile manner in-game, as do you cast spells and slay creatures. However, the main difference here is that it is completely FICTIONAL and DIGITAL. That's why these things are exempt from what the Bible tells us.

And yes, I do agree with you when you say that everything in the game is fake.

Ark

Its like all games and I say this with upmost respect, If you cant tell the differance between games and real life, please dont play games.

Controverse said:

I know that. You probably mistook what I meant.

Here's what I was trying to state in defense of the game:

You do interact with demons in the game. However, these demons are of a digital, fictional kind, as is the magic and all manner of life, entities and creatures found within. When you kill another player, you are only temporarily subduing the player's avatar (i.e. digital representation). There's what I was trying to state.

You do interact with demons in a hostile manner in-game, as do you cast spells and slay creatures. However, the main difference here is that it is completely FICTIONAL and DIGITAL. That's why these things are exempt from what the Bible tells us.

And yes, I do agree with you when you say that everything in the game is fake.

Ark

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Ah, marvelous! I'm glad we're of the same mind on this. I apologize for mistaking what you intended.

And if you'd like an explanation on evolutionary theory, I'm here! *nudge, nudge*

I have debates at times myself trying to decide if there are games that Christians should not play, or better yet, could it possibly be the way they are played?

If we say that the magic being merely game mechanics, graphics I believe one person pointed out, and that it is not reality, should we accpet it? If we accept that, then do we accept animated pornography? I would have to think if we justify the game by saying that its not reality, so its ok, then we are in a mess of trouble, because we do open the door for lots of other things.

Its been said on here that you fight in WoW against Warlocks, thats not always the case, you can play one yourself, and have spells that have names on them, which I would have to think every Christian, would see error in.

Now, what if I were to play as a class which uses their powers for good? What if I were to be a warrior, and play as one who banishes evil, and not get myself caught up in the hype of destroying another player simply because he is a tauren. But I play a a life of adventure, and questing.

Perhaps the answer doesn't lie soley in is the game good or bad, perhaps the answer lies in how you play it. I would have to think all of us can agree games such as Grant Theft Auto series are not expedient to anyone, we should stay away from those. The sole purpose is to be a gangster and kill police offiers and anyone else that gets into your way.

So again, perhaps with a game such as Warcraft, its more of the point that Christians should take into account how they play. Jesus said we are to be a witness for him, everywhere we go, that includes online, that includes over the phone, that includes when I'm alone in my own house.

The original poster of this thread says he wants to serve God, and he wants a relationship with him. I would suggest to him that he go to his father, and see if he can reason with him, and let him know that he'll play as a godly person. That he will stay away from classes that sole purpose are to bring death upon others. And he will not have that attitude. And also it is important to remember, we are to honor our father and mother. And stopping the gaming because he does not approve, does not hurt you in any way. We must honor our parents, and we will live long upon the earth.

So to sum up what I'm thinking, and the question I'm submitting to you. Is do you think perhaps its the style that a person plays, that should be checked? And not the charater that everyone else plays.

God Bless, Hope this helps.

Mitch

I think what it comes down to is people not being able to seperate fact from fiction. Playing a warlock in a game and being a real life warlock are two totally different and seperate things. Fantasy is just that. Fantasy. It's not grounded in reality. A game isn't evil. Now, if you play it and get it into your mind that you ARE the character...then that's not a spiritual problem...that's psychological. IE You are insane.

miller0521 said:

If we say that the magic being merely game mechanics, graphics I believe one person pointed out, and that it is not reality, should we accpet it?

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Yes.

If we accept that, then do we accept animated pornography?

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Er...why have you brought up pornography? What you're basically trying to say is that magic is wrong and porn is wrong, therefore if animated porn is wrong animated magic is wrong, too. The difference is that the use of porn is wrong just as the use of magic is wrong, but you don't use magic in a game, your fake character uses fake magic. Animated porn is still porn, though.

I would have to think if we justify the game by saying that its not reality, so its ok, then we are in a mess of trouble, because we do open the door for lots of other things.

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No, you really don't. The only example you've brought up is animated porn, which as I've explained isn't valid.

Its been said on here that you fight in WoW against Warlocks, thats not always the case, you can play one yourself, and have spells that have names on them, which I would have to think every Christian, would see error in.

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Why? I see no error in it.

Perhaps the answer doesn't lie soley in is the game good or bad, perhaps the answer lies in how you play it. I would have to think all of us can agree games such as Grant Theft Auto series are not expedient to anyone, we should stay away from those. The sole purpose is to be a gangster and kill police offiers and anyone else that gets into your way.

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Why should we stay away from them? If you feel that you are in danger of picking up a gun, joining a gang and shooting up a police cruiser because of playing the game, by all means, don't play it. The majority of people have no problem separating fantasy and reality, though.

So again, perhaps with a game such as Warcraft, its more of the point that Christians should take into account how they play. Jesus said we are to be a witness for him, everywhere we go, that includes online, that includes over the phone, that includes when I'm alone in my own house.

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So be a witness online. That doesn't mean that you need to limit the fake class you play in the fake game world.

The original poster of this thread says he wants to serve God, and he wants a relationship with him. I would suggest to him that he go to his father, and see if he can reason with him, and let him know that he'll play as a godly person.

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Why should this matter in a fake game?

That he will stay away from classes that sole purpose are to bring death upon others.

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Have you played WoW? Warlocks don't have that "sole purpose" any more than warriors do. I really don't think you know what you're talking about anymore.

So to sum up what I'm thinking, and the question I'm submitting to you. Is do you think perhaps its the style that a person plays, that should be checked? And not the charater that everyone else plays.

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I don't see any reason to limit your playstyle. There is no sin committed in playing a fake character, even if that character were evil incarnate. As long as you are able to separate fantasy from reality (as healthy adults should be able to do), this shouldn't be an issue.

I dont accept the "it's digital so it's ok" arguement based on, as others have pointed out, digital pornography and other things.

The bible makes it clear to store up your treasures where your heart is. God says the greatest commandment is to love Him with all that you are and teh second is to love others as you love yourself.

Canyou do these two things and still play WoW? I know I can. To me clicking on a mouse to have a fictional character "cast a spell" is not the same as going to a pagan festival in my area and engaging in thier practices of magic. The two do not equate to the same thing in my mind. Niether do I believe that my playing a "mage" in game condones or promotes others to practice real witchcraft.

There is a definate place for God in these games. I can enjoy myself and still witness to those around me. I do so mainly by my actions and how I treat people (see second greatest commandment) but I also get on Ventrilo or Teamspeak and talk to people. I will shoot the breeze with someone in Ironforge through chat and I do actual witnessing there, telling people who are interested about God and sharing my faith. I have prayed with and for people I have met through this game. World of Warcraft is no more evil than a knife or gun. Both can be used for evil and both can be used for good. As with most things, it's what is in your heart that comes out and matters.

If you have trouble making the distinction between reality and fiction then you should definately not play. This would fall under the same classifacation as alcohol in that case. If you are an alcoholic then drinking for you is a sin, because you can't stop yourself and you get drunk. If you cannot distinguish between reality and fiction, if you are addicted to the game, then WoW would be a sin for you, but it does not follow that it is a sin for all.

EDITED


God bless you

Telrunya said:

I dont accept the "it's digital so it's ok" arguement based on, as others have pointed out, digital pornography and other things.

The bible makes it clear to store up your treasures where your heart is. God says the greatest commandment is to love Him with all that you are and teh second is to love others as you love yourself.

Canyou do these two things and still play WoW? I know I can. To me clicking on a mouse to have a fictional character "cast a spell" is not the same as going to a pagan festival in my area and engaging in thier practices of magic. The two do not equate to the same thing in my mind. Niether do I believe that my playing a "mage" in game condones or promotes others to practice real witchcraft.

There is a definate place for God in these games. I can enjoy myself and still witness to those around me. I do so mainly by my actions and how I treat people (see second greatest commandment) but I also get on Ventrilo or Teamspeak and talk to people. I will shoot the breeze with someone in Ironforge through chat and I do actual witnessing there, telling people who are interested about God and sharing my faith. I have prayed with and for people I have met through this game. World of Warcraft is no more evil than a knife or gun. Both can be used for evil and both can be used for good. As with most things, it's what is in your heart that comes out and matters.

If you have trouble making the distinction between reality and fiction then you should definately not play. This would fall under the same classifacation as alcohol in that case. If you are an alcoholic then drinking for you is a sin, because you can't stop yourself and you get drunk. If you cannot distinguish between reality and fiction, if you are addicted to the game, then WoW would be a sin for you, but it does not follow that it is a sin for all.

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I'm extremely impressed!

You obviously know what you're talking about. It also looks like we both operate the same way in-game and both think the same way as well.

I would use a hammer as an example of a neutral object. You can build a house with it for the poor, or use it to bludgeon someone to death.
What matters is the choice you make.

Romans 14:14 says (I can't remember the exact wording) that things like this are inherently neutral, but if someone thinks it's unclean then let it be considered unclean by that person as there is no harm in that at all unless that person starts trying to impose the very idea onto others.

Ark