Then why are we even talking about magic in video games?
Why?
By the way, I'm still waiting for the source on that 60% figure you've cited twice now. Could you please tell us what it is?
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World of Warcraft. evil?
- Thread starter TheBrad
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By the way, I'm still waiting for the source on that 60% figure you've cited twice now. Could you please tell us what it is?
Since you have been defending all this so much, I can clearly see, that you got to be addicted to them and can't let go. Always know Christ can set you free!
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.......and I am still waiting on the answer if you ever read the New Testament at least once.
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Er...no. I actually don't play many video games. It was a good try, though. Accusing your opponent of being guilty of what he is defending is an oft-used debate tactic, despite the fallacies and lack of intellectual honesty involved.
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Telrunya
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I've read through most of the posts since I was away and I'm seeing those opposed to playing games like WoW using the analogy that "casting a spell" in the game is like unto practicing magic. To me this reveals a lack of understanding of what is really going on.
When Christ died on the Cross he freed us from the Law, because no one was ever saved through the Law, but were made aware of thier sin. Jesus said the 2 great commandments are to love God with all of your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. He went on to say that "all the Law and the Prophets hang on these two". The problem with the written Law was interpretation and loopholes like what the Pharisees did. Now we have the Holy Spirit living within us who convicts us.
All of that means it is what is in your heart that God is concerned with. When I play a game, and do it so I can talk to people about God in a venue where He doesn't get alot of press, then I am playing a game unto the Lord. Be it laying down a new domino or having my "mage" in a fantasy game "cast a spell". I know perfectly well when I click that mouse button that I am not trying to invoke spirits or the devil to do my bidding. God is my strength and my fortress. What is in my heart is a love of God and a desire to share him with my friends. Clicking on a mouse button to me does not in anyway collerlate to "casting a spell" or engaging in the practice of magic. For those who are so emphatic that it does I would ask them to please examine if they aren't being a bit too legalistic in thier views and to practice alittle more love for their brothers and sisters who dont share their viewpoint rather than condemnation.
When Christ died on the Cross he freed us from the Law, because no one was ever saved through the Law, but were made aware of thier sin. Jesus said the 2 great commandments are to love God with all of your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. He went on to say that "all the Law and the Prophets hang on these two". The problem with the written Law was interpretation and loopholes like what the Pharisees did. Now we have the Holy Spirit living within us who convicts us.
All of that means it is what is in your heart that God is concerned with. When I play a game, and do it so I can talk to people about God in a venue where He doesn't get alot of press, then I am playing a game unto the Lord. Be it laying down a new domino or having my "mage" in a fantasy game "cast a spell". I know perfectly well when I click that mouse button that I am not trying to invoke spirits or the devil to do my bidding. God is my strength and my fortress. What is in my heart is a love of God and a desire to share him with my friends. Clicking on a mouse button to me does not in anyway collerlate to "casting a spell" or engaging in the practice of magic. For those who are so emphatic that it does I would ask them to please examine if they aren't being a bit too legalistic in thier views and to practice alittle more love for their brothers and sisters who dont share their viewpoint rather than condemnation.
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I don't think anyone, including me was saying that magic in the game is just like real magic. No, its not. What I was saying all this time, and you can read it in my early posts, is that magic, demons, satanic powers belong to Devil. A Christian should stay away from them and it doesn't matter what form they are in, again games, movies, books and etc.
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Telrunya
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2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
To me what is in WoW is not demons or magic. Even if they were i would play the game and carry the message of the Gospel to those who need to hear it the most.
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You could take an avatar of someone here and with what, 6 photo edits make it look like a demon, its really just an image, like I have said, if your so easily influenced, dont bother.
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Real magic, real demons and real satanic powers belong to the devil. Fake magic, fake demons and fake satanic powers don't. Real magic, real demons and real satanic powers aren't found in games, movies and fiction novels. Fake magic, fake demons and fake satanic powers are. Christians have no reason to stay away from these things.
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Its hard for you guys to hear what I am saying, because you play WoW or games like it. I wish we had some opinions on this matter from Christians that don't play games like WoW, or played and quite for this or other reasons. If some of you are out there reading this please reply!
Also really want to hear from Spirit filled Christians on this subject. Don't be afraid, let us hear your story!
Also really want to hear from Spirit filled Christians on this subject. Don't be afraid, let us hear your story!
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I seriously doubt that this is the case. My ability to think reasonably is not altered by whether or not I play video games. Kindly reply to the argument instead of resorting to this kind of cop-out.
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I'm going to reply to you with a post from one of the other threads.
There are healthy fantasies and unhealthy fantasies. There's nothing wrong with using your imagination, provided it remains just that.
For example, there is nothing sinful about nudity or looking at a naked body, whether it be male or female. However, when your thoughts turn to desires, things you wish you could do in real life, things you would do with this man/woman, THAT is sinful. It's called lust.
Same with games. I don't think there's anything wrong with blowing someone up in a game as long as you don't desire to do the same thing in real life. Driving dangerously in a racing game is the same. Casting magical spells in an RPG. Forming armies to conquer civilizations in strategy games. If you start to hunger for these things in real life, then these games are leading you to sinful thoughts, feelings, and impulses. They're unhealthy and potentially dangerous if they make you actually want to go murder or whatever. But as long as you can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, I don't see any problem.
God knows your heart. And the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart as well. Listen to Him - He'll guide you the right way.
Oh, and its not your right to judge anyone else, and despite what you think, you are doing just that. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Open your mind, dude.
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Dust and Ashes
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By Spirit filled, I'm sure you mean Pentecostal/Charismatic, speaking in tongues, etc, right? I don't know if I'd qualify as I'm no longer a P/C but I was for years before becoming Orthodox. I am, however, Spirit filled and I used to play WoW but I quit.
Why did I quit? Because it no longer held my interest. Not because it's "evil" or has "magic" or "demons" but just because it became uninteresting for me. I'm considering picking up Vanguard: Saga of Heroes because it is supposed to be more group dependent and set up more like EQ. Does it have "magic" in it? Sure, it does. Does that bother me? No, because it's just a game.
I can't imagine the use of "magic" in a game to be any different than the use of technologically enhanced/granted abilities. Two of my favorite games are System Shock 2 and Deus Ex, both of which let you develop and use abilities that would be considered magical in a fantasy setting. Because the games are scifi, however, it is considered scientific. Either way, I'm holding out my hand and making a monster burst into flames or making something move by willing it to do so.
How I treat the real people I encounter in the game is much more important than whether or not I'm using "magic" in the game. Am I hooked on games? No. I doubt I spend 10 hours a week playing games; I have too much other stuff going on but it's nice to jump on and play a little here and there to relax.
I used to play a LOT more and there was a time when I was playing EQ that it was bad for me and strained my marriage. Was it because of the "magic" or "demons" in the game? No, it was because I wanted to play all the time and neglected everything else to do that. The problem lies mostly with the people and not the games themselves.
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Telrunya
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I am a Spirit filled Christian. The inferance that those who play games like WoW are not is beneath you and us, and is incedently against forum rules.
I might point out C.S. Lewis wrote the Screw tape Letters which contain demons. If you follow the Christian symbology in his Narnia series there is no doubt the White Queen or witch as he refers to her at times in the series is a demon.
Sauron and the Balrogs of Tolkin's Middle Earth were certainly demons.
You cannot be a Christian, a warrior for God, and not recognize your enemy. If you do you leave yourself wide open to attack and Satan will certainly do everything in his power to render you ineffective.
That being said there is no corolation between fantasy and reality other than in a simply symbolic way. What of Lucy's magic elixir that restored life? Or Gandalf's fire hurling magic? These were instances the Christian writers used to symbolize God's power working through believers. I'm sorry but your case holds no water.
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
In light of this verse, Christians must ask themselves two questions
1) Is playing WoW is profitable to them? If they play for enjoyment and relaxation then it's ok. Not nearly as profitable as if say they spoke to the people they came into contact with through the game about God, which I do. Then it is definately profitable.
2) Does this game master you? Online addiction is a very real thing that all believers must recognize and wiegh. Is the playing the game keeping you from spending time in God's word or in prayer? Is playing the game preventing you from joining with other believers? If the answer is no then there is no reason why a believer cannot play WoW.
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Just to clarify my self. When I said Spirit filled Christians, I meant Pentecostal/Charismatic, speaking in tongues, and I wasn't trying to say that if you play WoW your not Spirit filled.
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I can't located that article, it was on Yahoos main page when Burning Crusade came out. They were talking about WoW and how 60% of users are addicted to it, I think they where basing it on the amount of time those 60% of addicts were playing every day, but like I said I tried browsing on Yahoo, and it doesn't come up. I would never make up stuff like that just to make someone or something look bad, because then I would be lying.
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CyberPaladin
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I'm not accusing you of lying, I have doubts about the study itself in a case like this it would very easy to manipulate the data to come up with high rate addiction. Which is why I was wondering what the parameters for the study were and who did it.
Also Dannager keep in mind PETA was able to get study produced that concluded beer is healthier for you to drink than milk you can make a study say whatever you want if you know how to manipulate the data.
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Dust and Ashes
wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked
It wouldn't surprise me a bit if it were true. I only recently learned that beer was the most popular breakfast beverage in colonial America before coffee supplanted it in the mid 17th century. I'm very limited on how much milk I can drink (excepting skim) because of the fat content but I love me some liquid bread.
Also, a friend who recently passed away from a massive heart attack had prolonged his life for years (Doctor's words) by drinking a couple of beers every evening after work.
As a wise man once said, "Beer has food value but food has no beer value."
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