work/servile work

[Heber Book List]

We will have to agree to disagree. I think wives were included because the words were spoken to the 'assembly'. And I wouldn't put taking care of ones child or a sick relative in the category of "work".

Edit-
I went and took a look, and if one wants to get technical, the "you" or "thou" is masculine singular which would mean the commandments were only directed to the men. So if one wanted to, they could argue that women aren't obligated to keep the commandments at all. But I don't want to argue that

.

I am really unsure why you, also, take the outrageous view that I said that looking after babies, young children or the ill / sick is work. I didn't, and neither should you!! Please read all other posts on the thread before jumping in with assumptions about what has been said.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Wives are not actually listed in the so-called 10 commandments under Sabbath. They have duties to perform if others are dependent on them, as in babies and very young children or family are sick / ill.

This is the post that made it sound like you considered taking care of children or the ill as "work".

 

[visionary]

This is the post that made it sound like you considered taking care of children or the ill as "work".

Labor of love

 

[Heber Book List]

This is the post that made it sound like you considered taking care of children or the ill as "work".

Those who read it were obviously aware that it is a DUTY OF LOVE, as they, themselves concluded, so no need for uncertainty. Why would it be different to how they thought it should read? (that's a rhetorical question). That which is work is clearly known.

 

[gadar perets]

While we are on the subject of wives not mentioned in the Sabbath command, what do you all think about them not being mentioned in the following?

Deu 16:13 Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:
Deu 16:14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.​

 

[Heber Book List]

While we are on the subject of wives not mentioned in the Sabbath command, what do you all think about them not being mentioned in the following?

Deu 16:13 Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:
Deu 16:14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.​

Same reason as the Sabbath command omission.

 

[Open Heart]

A wife is not listed as those who may do no work on Shabbat in Exodus 20 vs 8-11. JPS 1917

This is not true. There are certain forms of work a wife and mother may do, because it is unavoidable, such as watching children, preparing food, etc. But in terms of the 39 melachot, she must avoid them as well. She may not walk long distances, carry heavy objects, harvest grain, cook food, kindle a flame, etc.

 

[Open Heart]

I just started studying this because I thought it was interesting that there are two different words for "work" - avodah, and melachah. If I am reading it right, on the weekly Sabbath and Yom Kippur, the work is "melachah" work, and the rest of the holy days/feasts is "avodah." I found an article that said that "avodah" is a general term for work but "melachah", though there are only two 'melachot' listed in the Torah, the definition was expanded to be 39 categories of 'work' that was involved in building the "Mishkan". I'd heard about that, but hadn't really read up on it. But in the article it says:
"These melachot are not a haphazard collection of activities, and do not necessarily represent physical exertion. Rather, the principle behind them is that they represent constructive, creative effort, demonstrating man's mastery over nature. Refraining from melachah on Shabbat signals our recognition that, despite our human creative abilities, G‑d is the ultimate Creator and Master."

I thought that was a nice way to look at it especially on the weekly Sabbath and Yom Kippur. It's kind of like you have to 'let go and let God" on those days.

So I didn't mean to cause a fuss; I was just wondering if Messianics saw any difference between the two kinds of "work".

The two "melachot" that are actually written are about kindling a fire, and "carrying." But I think the "carrying" (remember Yeshua told the man to pick up his bed and walk?) is about "carrying a burden".

This is the article I read and got the quote from: Melacha - A Unique Definition of Work

Enjoy the rest of your Sabbath.

Right on post. Worth repeating.

 

[Heber Book List]

This is not true. There are certain forms of work a wife and mother may do, because it is unavoidable, such as watching children, preparing food, etc. But in terms of the 39 melachot, she must avoid them as well. She may not walk long distances, carry heavy objects, harvest grain, cook food, kindle a flame, etc.

Please show exactly where ones wife is listed if my comment is untrue, as you claim!

What you have said is what I have been saying in the thread.

Did you not read the thread through?

 

[chunkofcoal]

Right on post. Worth repeating.

Thank you.

 

[Open Heart]

Please show exactly where ones wife is listed if my comment is untrue, as you claim!

What you have said is what I have been saying in the thread.

Did you not read the thread through?

It seems to me that a wife is included unless specifically excluded.

 

[Soyeong]

There are two kinds of "work" mentioned in regards to the Holy days/ Feasts - translated as "work" and "servile work". How do Messianics define these two kinds of "work"? Do they generally follow what the Rabbis have said?

Essentially anything that profits you in this world or that is done to earn an income.

 

[Heber Book List]

It seems to me that a wife is included unless specifically excluded.

In that case G_d would not have listed everyone else, but not one's wife; it is a carefully defined listing to cover all possibilities, including the wife's husband.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Maybe God still considered a husband and wife to be one flesh back in those days so He didn't specifically say "your wives".

Mar 10:6-9 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; (8) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. (9) What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

[Heber Book List]

Maybe God still considered a husband and wife to be one flesh back in those days so He didn't specifically say "your wives".

Mar 10:6-9 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; (8) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. (9) What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Logical, but not likely, because the woman has duties to perform in the family, as already pointed out several times. Who does those duties of the wife if she comes under the strict directive of the Law relating to her husband on the Sabbath? That would exclude her being able to do her essential motherly tasks. G_d omitted her name for a reason - essential care for her children and any sick people present.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Essentially anything that profits you in this world or that is done to earn an income.

Thanks for answering.

 

[Open Heart]

In that case G_d would not have listed everyone else, but not one's wife; it is a carefully defined listing to cover all possibilities, including the wife's husband.

It's a patriarchal society. Women don't get mentioned. It doesn't mean that they aren't covered. It just means that they weren't considered worth mentioning.

 

[Heber Book List]

It's a patriarchal society. Women don't get mentioned. It doesn't mean that they aren't covered. It just means that they weren't considered worth mentioning.

So daughters and maidservants are not women?

 

[Lulav]

Wives are not actually listed in the so-called 10 commandments under Sabbath. They have duties to perform if others are dependent on them, as in babies and very young children or family are sick / ill.

I included that in my post

???

A wife is not listed as those who may do no work on Shabbat in Exodus 20 vs 8-11. JPS 1917

I didn't say they were defined as work - they are essential tasks.

My point was, is, that wives are not included in the list of those who may not work on the Sabbath.

Simple fact.

Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God;
in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.


I have to agree with COC, the 'You' is speaking of the man and his wife, whereas the two shall become one. A son and daughter would be single so are mentioned both, the same with the servants, but the wife if part of the husband so is not mentioned separately.

 

[Heber Book List]

I included that in my post







Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God;
in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.


I have to agree with COC, the 'You' is speaking of the man and his wife, whereas the two shall become one. A son and daughter would be single so are mentioned both, the same with the servants, but the wife if part of the husband so is not mentioned separately.

They are mentioned separately in the next 'commandment' and 'wife' is mentioned in other parts of scripture (407 times).