Thoughts AS I listen to it.....
...just thoughts....
[8:15] mark Pastor Woods says that Jakes denies the Trinity. Jakes changed his position on this so I wonder when this video is from. YouTube says it was "published" in late December of 2012, but Jakes turned that position well over a year ago to my understanding.
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What he noted about Jakes did bother me - and the reason why is because of how there've been other conversations similar to the one he had with Price Jr where Reformed and people associated with the Faith Movement/Prosperity movement have dialouged and noted that Jakes was NOT denying the Trinity. I'm reminded of Mark Driscoll - who actually sat down with Jakes and Jakes set the record straight with him and by proxy other Reformed people who kept the rumor up that he was against the Trinity. T.D Jakes (who came from a Oneness Pentecostalism background) shared in depth with many notable teachers/preachers who had a Trinitarian background and shared on his reasons for how the Trinity can be misunderstood ( more shared
here,
here,
here,
here,
here and
here ). Kept up with Jakes for years...and never, be it in his teachings or his writings, did it remotely come off as if he was saying He denied the Triune nature of the Lord. As James McDonald said, "I do not require T.D. Jakes or anyone else to define the details of Trinitarianism the way that I might. His [Jakes's] website states clearly that he believes God has existed eternally in three manifestations."
On the event where Jakes spoke to other Reformed theologians (like Mark Driscoll),
it was an event called "Elephant Room" - and it was pretty controversial seeing the ways other blacks associated with the Reformed movement felt on other blacks associated either with the Faith Movement or Prosperity movement. For commentary on the issue:
With TD Jakes, I was actually very glad he spoke with Mark Driscoll in the Elephant room discussion...for many times, I heard accusations from groups that never seemed to line up whenever I'd study them...and people getting upset over others not automatically having a Trinatrian view often are not aware of how there were differing views within the church--especially in regards to what's known as binitarian monotheism and how much of the early Jewish world held to it. TO me, what Jakes has often said seemed to be more akin to that on most parts.
To see the entire interview or what Mark Driscoll (an Emerging Reformer) said on it, one can go online/look up the article entitled
"10 Reflections on the Elephant Room," . Driscoll writes that it was an important event and "rather than talking about Christian leaders, the opportunity to talk with them is important as it models humble but forthright disagreement." "In the acrimonious age of the Internet this kind of modeling is important. I know I too have been guilty of talking about people rather than to them, so I do not exclude myself from the need to learn and mature in this area," he confessed.
Driscoll said that he would address participants privately rather than publicly when it came to specific issues.
For more review:
I was a bit surprised to see Driscoll talking with Jakes..but as they've shared the same platforms before (such as what occurred with things like Catalyst), it makes sense for them to become more aware of one another---and rather than having wars by proxy or choosing to circle around one another in long distance discussion/hints, it was nice to see them talk between one another.
). It was an interview he did with Pastor Fred Price Jr (Word of Faith) - the son of famous WOF teacher Fredrick Price- and they shared on why they believed what they believed
