Wondering what the Magi/Wise Men looked like

Lik3 · Dec 13, 2015

I have wondered what the Magi really looked like. It seems silly but that has been a thought I had. I also wonder how many wise men actually went to Israel to see Baby Jesus. Interestingly enough, the Bible doesn't say how many wise men there were. However, there are only three presented because of the number of gifts given to the Baby. What is also interesting are the "races" of the three "Magi" from the East. The older two magis are Caucasian (one European, one Semitic) while the youngest one was a black African. The names were not even mentioned in the Bible as far as I can tell. I guess the Bible felt that those details were not as important as the fact that they were a part of a prophecy about the coming of the Newborn King. When they saw and followed the star indeed.

Goodbook · Dec 13, 2015

I think the Bible says they came from the East so maybe they were oriental looking.

There was a prophecy in the OT about that visitation but I cant think of it right now.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

Lik3 said:
I have wondered what the Magi really looked like. It seems silly but that has been a thought I had. I also wonder how many wise men actually went to Israel to see Baby Jesus. Interestingly enough, the Bible doesn't say how many wise men there were. However, there are only three presented because of the number of gifts given to the Baby.

By that logic, if I offer you a book and a piece of clothing, I am actually two persons. By the same logic, if I gather my ten friends to get money to offer you a smartphone, the eleven of us are just one person.

Do not be ridiculous! How can you tell they were three? How do you know that, for example, they were not a few dozen wise men who all gathered together a bit of gold, a bit of incense and a bit of myrrh? Where does the Bible say that one gave gold, another gave incense and another one gave myrrh! It does not!

Lik3 said:
What is also interesting are the "races" of the three "Magi" from the East. The older two magis are Caucasian (one European, one Semitic) while the youngest one was a black African.

Where do you read that?

Lik3 said:
The names were not even mentioned in the Bible as far as I can tell. I guess the Bible felt that those details were not as important as the fact that they were a part of a prophecy about the coming of the Newborn King. When they saw and followed the star indeed.

Of course the details were not important! Do not add to the Bible what it does not say!

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

Goodbook said:
[...] There was a prophecy in the OT about that visitation but I cant think of it right now.

Well, we can't be entirely sire that's a prophecy, but, if we are talking about the same thing, it is Psalms 72:10-11, which reads:

‘May the kings of Tarshish and of the coastlands
render him tribute;
may the kings of Sheba and Seba
bring gifts!
May all kings fall down before him,
all nations serve him!’

The reasons why we cannot be entirely sure that this is a prophecy concerning the visit of the wise men are as follows:

It is not explicitly identified as a prophecy regarding Jesus (although it is not the first time it happens: e.g., Psalm 22);
Often, when something happens to Jesus which had been prophesied, Matthew clearly indicates that the event happened in order to fulfil a given prophecy, and then proceeds to quote it (he does this many times), but he does not do it with this alleged prophecy of the coming of the wise men;
The prophecy identifies the wise men as kings, which Matthew's account does not mention;
The prophecy identifies the exact places where these kings would come from, but Matthew's account does not;
The prophecy links this with ‘all nations serving him’, which did not happen when Jesus was born (this seems to be related more with Jesus' Second Coming);
Ultimately, the only thing that these verses have in common with Matthew's account is that someone would come to render tribute to ‘him’ (which is not even said to be the Messiah), to bring him gifts and to fall down before him and serve him.

Perhaps this is not it. There seem to be good reasons to give credit to the theory that these verses are not prophesying the coming of the wise men.

Lik3 · Dec 15, 2015

The Portuguese Baptist said:
By that logic, if I offer you a book and a piece of clothing, I am actually two persons. By the same logic, if I gather my ten friends to get money to offer you a smartphone, the eleven of us are just one person.

Fair enough.

Do not be ridiculous! How can you tell they were three? How do you know that, for example, they were not a few dozen wise men who all gathered together a bit of gold, a bit of incense and a bit of myrrh? Where does the Bible say that one gave gold, another gave incense and another one gave myrrh! It does not!

I meant the number of gifts that were given to Baby Jesus according to the Bible. It could be as many as 20 for all I know. The number of Magi or Wise Men who came to see Baby Jesus could be a small number or a large number.

Where do you read that?
Okay. I need to correct myself. I really don't know the exact "race" or "races" of the Magi or Wise Men. They were from the East, but according to paintings dating way back after the New Testament was written, I have noticed that two are "Caucasian" (European and Semitic) and the third was black African. Why painters did that, I don't know.

Of course the details were not important! Do not add to the Bible what it does not say!

I wasn't. You have never wondered about things in the Bible? You never had questions? I don't believe either that a person or people should add or take away from the Bible. That wasn't even what I was doing.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

Lik3 said:
I meant the number of gifts that were given to Baby Jesus according to the Bible. It could be as many as 20 for all I know. The number of Magi or Wise Men who came to see Baby Jesus could be a small number or a large number.

Ah! OK. You had said: ‘Interestingly enough, the Bible doesn't say how many wise men there were. However, there are only three presented because of the number of gifts given to the Baby.’ From that, I thought you meant that there were three wise men because there were three gifts. That is why I said that.

Lik3 said:
Okay. I need to correct myself. I really don't know the exact "race" or "races" of the Magi or Wise Men. They were from the East, but according to paintings dating way back after the New Testament was written, I have noticed that two are "Caucasian" (European and Semitic) and the third was black African. Why painters did that, I don't know.

Ah! OK. You had said: ‘The older two magis are Caucasian (one European, one Semitic) while the youngest one was a black African.’ From that, I thought you meant that you really knew their races. That is why I said that.

Lik3 said:
I wasn't. You have never wondered about things in the Bible? You never had questions? I don't believe either that a person or people should add or take away from the Bible. That wasn't even what I was doing.

Of course you can wonder and question things about the Bible! But you seemed to be making essentially assertive statements about details not included in the Bible's account (like those two details I have mentioned now). I did not interpret that as questioning or wondering.

So, it appears that my post has resulted from a misunderstanding. Sorry!

JackRT · Dec 15, 2015

The bible tells us they were "magi" not "kings" not even "wise men'. A magus was a priest of the Zoroastrian religion. The Jews were exposed to this faith during the Babylonian exile. I am convinced that this exposure had a powerful effect on late Judaism and consequently on our Christian understandings as well. The portrayal of them in rich robes and even crowns makes for elegant Christmas cards and Christmas pageants but is likely far from the truth.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

JackRT said:
The bible tells us they were "magi" not "kings" not even "wise men'. [...]

Er...

Matthew 2:1 (emphases are mine) —

New International Version — ‘After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judaea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem [...]’ — with a footnote saying, ‘Traditionally wise men’.
English Standard Version — ‘Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem [...]’ — with a footnote saying, ‘Greek magi; also verses 7, 16’.
New American Standard Bible — ‘Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, [...]’ — with a footnote saying, ‘A caste of wise men specialising in astronomy, astrology, and natural science’.
King James Version — ‘Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, [...]’.
New King James Version — ‘Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, [...]’.
Amplified Bible — ‘Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king (Herod the Great), magi (wise men) from the east came to Jerusalem, asking, [...]’ — with a footnote saying, ‘Gr magoi; these were educated men who specialised in astronomy, astrology, and the natural sciences. The magi were witnesses to the miraculous events surrounding the birth of Jesus.’

How can you say that they were not wise men?

Lik3 · Dec 15, 2015

No need to apologize, Portuguese.

JackRT · Dec 15, 2015

They were magi. I really do not know if they were wise.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

JackRT said:
They were magi. I really do not know if they were wise.

How can you tell?

JackRT · Dec 15, 2015

The Portuguese Baptist said:
How can you tell?

Experience is a good guide.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 15, 2015

JackRT said:
Experience is a good guide.

Would you please clarify? Don't make me waste my time asking information from you bit by bit! Just tell me what you know!

JackRT · Dec 15, 2015

The Portuguese Baptist said:
Would you please clarify? Don't make me waste my time asking information from you bit by bit! Just tell me what you know!

I have already told you what I know of the magi. I said that I really didn't know if they were wise. Simon Magus wasn't.

Goodbook · Dec 15, 2015

KJV says they were wise men, and I have no reason to doubt the KJV.

What does a wise man look like? I imagine someone with a beard perhaps and a thoughtful manner. And white hair, possibly elderly.

On christmas cards sometimes they are portrayed as three kings, but we know Kings can be foolish as well. So its not likely they all wore crowns on their heads. Herod possibly consulted astronomy, and magi would have been like astronomers.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Dec 15, 2015

They were Persian astrologist priests. Probably Zoroastrian. My understanding is that there was a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in Pisces in the year 7 BCE. This is possibly the background to the story, whether it's historical or not. The Judeo-Christian biblical and religious traditions contain a fair amount of astrology and magic. Todd Klutz from the University of Manchester has done considerable work on magic in the biblical tradition.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 16, 2015

JackRT said:
I have already told you what I know of the magi. I said that I really didn't know if they were wise. Simon Magus wasn't.

No, you haven't. You have said about them a bunch of stuff that is not in the Bible, and you refuse to call them ‘wise men’, even though, as I have shown you, some versions call them ‘wise men’. However, you have not yet justified anything of what you have said.

Job8 · Dec 16, 2015

Lik3 said:
I have wondered what the Magi really looked like.

Since due east of Jerusalem are Jordan, and then Arabia (presently Saudi Arabia), these magi (wise men) probably came from Arabia (having travelled a great distance), and were familiar with the Torah, and the prophecy regarding the Star, which would signify the King of Israel. Note the words they used when speaking with Herod. So if you are wondering what they looked like, they would have been swarthy Arabs with a Semitic cast of features. They may even have known about Job, from the land of Uz (believed to be in modern Jordan). Chances are they were only three.

The Portuguese Baptist · Dec 17, 2015

Job8 said:
[...] Chances are they were only three.

Er... Why?

I suggest that you read post #3.

JackRT · Dec 17, 2015

wise --- having the power of discerning and judging properly as to what is true or right; possessing discernment, judgment, or discretion.

In earlier posts when I used the term wise, it was in the above sense.

wise --- possessed of or characterized by scholarly knowledge or learning; learned; erudite.

One can be wise in the second sense without being wise in the first sense. That is what I was trying to get across when I said that I did not know if they were wise men. As magi they were obviously learned.

Wondering what the Magi/Wise Men looked like

Newbie

Reading the Bible

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Newbie

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Well-Known Member

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Well-Known Member

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Well-Known Member

Reading the Bible

Well-Known Member

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Senior Member

Centre-right conservative Christian-Democrat

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency