wondering about suicide and how God views it?

[Bill777]

HHMMMMM????? I always thought that a christian was washed by the blood of jesus who died on the cross for all our sins, so they are forgotten forever? so to me that would mean that when we meet the almighty maker those and all sin is not to be remembered no more.Just a thought. a sin is a sin is a sin none is worse then another.

You are right that all your past sins are forgiven. if you confess and repent of your sin. The problem with suicide is that you are dying in your sin. Suicide is a sin in itself. Once you commit suicide there's no time time to confess the sin. You see you can't repent when you are committing suicide because you die in your sin, it gives you no time to repent after committing the sin. From this point of view suicide is the only sin that doesn't give you time to say I'm sorry after you committed the sin.

 

[carmi]

You are right that all your past sins are forgiven. if you confess and repent of your sin. The problem with suicide is that you are dying in your sin. Suicide is a sin in itself. Once you commit suicide there's no time time to confess the sin. You see you can't repent when you are committing suicide because you die in your sin, it gives you no time to repent after committing the sin. From this point of view suicide is the only sin that doesn't give you time to say I'm sorry after you committed the sin.

Two years - maybe even 3 - after I got saved I realized a sin (I never thought of it as sin, until the day I read something in a commentary. Only then did I realize that. Since I never recognized it as sin, I never repented of it the day I got saved nor on any other day during these 2 or 3 years.

And I have to admit it does take me more often than I care to mention days until I realize I did or said something wrong. I wish I could say I catch "it" immediately but I don't.

All I can is hold on to

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Without that I would not be able to sleep, always worrying whether I forgot to repent of something.

 

[12volt_man]

You are right that all your past sins are forgiven. if you confess and repent of your sin. The problem with suicide is that you are dying in your sin. Suicide is a sin in itself. Once you commit suicide there's no time time to confess the sin. You see you can't repent when you are committing suicide because you die in your sin, it gives you no time to repent after committing the sin. From this point of view suicide is the only sin that doesn't give you time to say I'm sorry after you committed the sin.

If one is in Christ, then he is forgiven, period.

I am forgiven for my sins. I am forgiven for sins yet to come.

I'm going to try not to sin but, being flawed as I am, I will, anyway. Of course I will repent, but that sin is already forgiven, even today, before it's even committed because I am in Christ.

Our union with God is established and our righteousness in Christ is assured.

You're either saved or you're not saved.

 

[SonOfThunder]

If one is in Christ, then he is forgiven, period.

You're either saved or you're not saved.

How about if your in the wrong religion? or not sure of your salvation? where does a person sit sin wise then?

 

[blessedmomof5]

Bill777,
but that really does make make sense IMHO, lets says i a christian is driving down the road now daily we are to confess our sins withour mouths.... but its morning and i usually do kmine at night and i have sinned already most do, all fall short of the glory of God.....now i hit a tree and die....where do i go...i have unconfessed sin?
InChrist
Denise

 

[12volt_man]

How about if your in the wrong religion?

I don't know if you noticed or not, but I said "if one is in Christ."

or not sure of your salvation?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that being sure of your salvation is a condition for salvation.

where does a person sit sin wise then?

If one is in Christ, then he is forgiven. It's really no more complicated than that.

Christ = forgiveness.

No Christ = no forgiveness

 

[If Not For Grace]

The problem with suicide is that you are dying in your sin. Suicide is a sin in itself. Once you commit suicide there's no time time to confess the sin

It is reputed that MartinLuther Likened suicide to a robber. Is the person who was robbed on a highway and killed any more responsible for his death than the person robbed by the devil of his sanity? Who can say?

 

[agkitty]

It is reputed that MartinLuther Likened suicide to a robber. Is the person who was robbed on a highway and killed any more responsible for his death than the person robbed by the devil of his sanity? Who can say?

Ooooh, very good. I like it. Nice. Very thought provoking, boy that really struck a chord with me!

 

[JPPT1974]

God views it as an insult to the temple He has given us.
Because our bodies are indeed His temple.
And that destroys or rather compromises our temple from Him.
That really saddens Him when people take their own lives.

 

[12volt_man]

God views it as an insult to the temple He has given us.

He does? I don't know where you found this in scripture, but I can show you many place that tell us that God shows mercy to the hurting.

 

[blessedmomof5]

JPPT1974 vbmenu_register("postmenu_20299567", true); ,

Yes i believe it saddenes him also, and i also believs he he holds them tight and squeezes them and tells them they are now safely with him, but does that make them lose salvation?
I would think not, imho.....
Blessings

 

[Bill777]

If one is in Christ, then he is forgiven, period.

I am forgiven for my sins. I am forgiven for sins yet to come.

I'm going to try not to sin but, being flawed as I am, I will, anyway. Of course I will repent, but that sin is already forgiven, even today, before it's even committed because I am in Christ.

Our union with God is established and our righteousness in Christ is assured.

You're either saved or you're not saved.

If you are in Christ your righteousness is assured, you are correct. Now let me add that if anybody believes that they have a license to sin and they will be forgiven, then they don't have the spirit of Christ, and they are not in Christ. The apostle Paul was very clear on that when he wrote his epistles to the churches. We are new creations in Jesus, we are born again. If you are living in sin you were never born again, never, and none of your sins were forgiven. False assurance of salvation, also called antinomianism (you can sin as much as those outside Christ because you are forgiven and they are not), was denounced by Luther and all the Reformers. Unless you are born again, you shall not see the kingdom of heaven, unless you are regenerated by the holy spirit you will not see heaven. A regenerated Christian can never sin like the world, he can not live like the world, otherwise he was never regenerated to begin with. I'm not saying christians will never commit sin, just that they will not sin like the world because they've been regenerated by the holy spirit. There is forgivenes, sure, but the apostle Paul was clear when he told the churches that fornicators, adulterers, drunkards etc. won't enter the kingdom of heaven. In his first letter to the Corinthians he urged them to expel fornicators from the church. If a homosexual were to tell me today that he will continue in his sin because he is in Christ and he is forgiven, chances are 9 out of 10 this fellow is not in Christ.

I believe in assurance of salvation, but I also believe that if the fruit of the spirit isn't there you are not saved. Jesus was clear that any tree that doesn't bear fruit will be cut down. Works don't save you, but works are a result from faith, a faith that doesn't produce works is dead and is not a saving faith, it is not faith in Jesus like James wrote in his epistle.

 

[carmi]

A regenerated Christian can never sin like the world, he can not live like the world, otherwise he was never regenerated to begin with. I'm not saying christians will never commit sin, just that they will not sin like the world because they've been regenerated by the holy spirit.

I have to admit I don't quite understand "not sinning like the world". So far I have been told and believed that sin is sin, sinning is sinning. I never heard about sinning in a worldly way and in an unworldly way.

Loving the world too much, or living too worldly are terms I have heard. I am also familiar with the verse "not to be overcome by the world" ... and though there maybe different reasons, imo people who despair of their life are overcome and feel they can't live in this world anymore.

Could you point to me a bible passage that speaks of sinning like the world / not sinning like the world?

 

[Bill777]

I have to admit I don't quite understand "not sinning like the world". So far I have been told and believed that sin is sin, sinning is sinning. I never heard about sinning in a worldly way and in an unworldly way.

Loving the world too much, or living too worldly are terms I have heard. I am also familiar with the verse "not to be overcome by the world" ... and though there maybe different reasons, imo people who despair of their life are overcome and feel they can't live in this world anymore.

Could you point to me a bible passage that speaks of sinning like the world / not sinning like the world?

There are tonnes of bible passages, pretty much every book of the new testament mentions that we are not to be like the world, or we ought not to commit the sins that those that are outside Christ commit. And if we do we shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Trust me we are saved by grace through faith, but like James said I will show you my faith with my works. Any christians that believes he can not show his faith by his works and prove that his works are better than a non-christian shall not enter heaven.

I have picked Ephesians 4 starting at 4:17 to 5:11 from the KJV to show you what I mean that the new man can not sin like the world does:

Ephesians 4


17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20But ye have not so learned Christ;

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27Neither give place to the devil.

28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Ephesians 5

1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

 

[carmi]

There are tonnes of bible passages, pretty much every book of the new testament mentions that we are not to be like the world, or we ought not to commit the sins that those that are outside Christ commit.

I believe I am not to commit sins, period.

And I do know the bible passages you quoted.

But I still can't see where the bible says that believers sin differently.

A regenerated Christian can never sin like the world, he can not live like the world, otherwise he was never regenerated to begin with. I'm not saying christians will never commit sin, just that they will not sin like the world because they've been regenerated by the holy spirit.

I don't believe that - for example - if a non-believer lies three times, I should only lie one time. If I lied three times I'd be like a non-believer. I should not lie, period. If I do, and if I do it only once, I have to confess and ask God to forgive me. I believe it does not matter whether my unbelieving neighbour lies 10 times more than I do (and I'd know it).

If I as a believer steal an apple, I believe it is as much as sin in God's view than if a non-believer stole a car.

And I can think of bible passages listing various sins and warning me about committing them but I cannot think of one bible passage that would give a list with "okay" sins for believers and "not so okay" (aka worldly) sins.

 

[agkitty]

Isn't it true theat we are "Like filthy rags before God" therefore, Bill777, how can it be that we are able to confees all of our sins? I mean GOd is holy, we can do things daily that are sin and we may completely be ignorant of it, that is MERCY. The blood int he old testament was sprinkled on the mercy seat for a reason. That is what Christ did. Do you really think that once you accept CHrist as your savior that instantly you are"perfect", as in not able to fall to sin again?. No, through the time one spends with God, praying, reading the bible, fellowshipping with other believer, that is where the Spirit works on you, and molds you. One can stifle the Spirit, helped and encouraged by Satans smooth decietfull ways. To say that when someone kills themself, and are unable to confess it because they are dying in their sin, I believe is wrong. You can't loseyour salvation, you can lose blessings, youcan lose treasures and status(for lack of a better word) in heaven, but NOT your salvation. Also Paul was saying that if the Spirit has revealed a sin to you, listen to Him, do not continue doing it, like cheating at a boardgame, but if you say to yourself, "Well it's the only way to win, and Jesus already forgave me this sin, He knew I would commit, so might as well." That is what Paul warned against. If you sin and continue you will be forgiven, the warning is to remember who is living in you, and do not do knowing grievace acts. If Satan has dragged someone to the point of the prodigal son, where they feel that they can no longer go on, and they take their life, then when they do die, they will have to be judged by God, now if they had accepted CHrist as savior and strayed, then their name is in the book of life, and no matter their "work" cannot be erased.

 

[Bill777]

Isn't it true theat we are "Like filthy rags before God" therefore, Bill777, how can it be that we are able to confees all of our sins? I mean GOd is holy, we can do things daily that are sin and we may completely be ignorant of it, that is MERCY. The blood int he old testament was sprinkled on the mercy seat for a reason. That is what Christ did. Do you really think that once you accept CHrist as your savior that instantly you are"perfect", as in not able to fall to sin again?. No, through the time one spends with God, praying, reading the bible, fellowshipping with other believer, that is where the Spirit works on you, and molds you. One can stifle the Spirit, helped and encouraged by Satans smooth decietfull ways. To say that when someone kills themself, and are unable to confess it because they are dying in their sin, I believe is wrong. You can't loseyour salvation, you can lose blessings, youcan lose treasures and status(for lack of a better word) in heaven, but NOT your salvation. Also Paul was saying that if the Spirit has revealed a sin to you, listen to Him, do not continue doing it, like cheating at a boardgame, but if you say to yourself, "Well it's the only way to win, and Jesus already forgave me this sin, He knew I would commit, so might as well." That is what Paul warned against. If you sin and continue you will be forgiven, the warning is to remember who is living in you, and do not do knowing grievace acts. If Satan has dragged someone to the point of the prodigal son, where they feel that they can no longer go on, and they take their life, then when they do die, they will have to be judged by God, now if they had accepted CHrist as savior and strayed, then their name is in the book of life, and no matter their "work" cannot be erased.

1) You are right that we may not know all our sins, so there are some we can't confess or repent of but God forgives the believer.

2) I agree you can't lose your salvation but I believe that somebody that commits suicide was never saved to begin with. Like First John says, "They went out from us but they were never from us". God only knows, but chances are high that somebody that commits suicide was never saved.

3) I'm not into cheap grace. James said I will show you my faith with my works, and I tell you the same thing. I'm not prepared to hide behind a weak dead faith. I'm saved by grace thorough faith alone, but I will not concede that my faith is weak and that Satan is going to drag me down. I serve one master, Jesus Christ because he chose me and he made me his slave, I do not serve Satan. I believe that somebody that commits suicide is a slave to Satan, and not saved. If he was ever saved, he was not eternally saved, he was not of his sheep, he is in apostacy. Even Calvin, who believed in irresistible grace (once saved always saved) conceded that apostacy was possible. You are saved by God's grace alone, and God can take that grace away, denying that is denying God's sovereignty. So yes it is possible to enjoy God's grace and then lose it completely. Now those people were never eternally saved to begin with, from that perspective only I agree that you can never lose your salvation, even if God gave them a taste of his grace for a while. However, the bible is clear that you can, have the holy ghost temporarily, it appears as if you are saved but you are not eternally saved, it's just temporary, you can lose it all. Hebrews chapter 6 is abundantly clear as I quote it further down, and it is the very definition of apostacy, which every Christian theologian recognizes as biblical. You can lose your salvation through apostacy, there's no christian theologian that I'm aware of that ever said that apostacy (abandoning the faith and losing your salvation) is impossible. Although I would agree that those that commit apostacy were never eternally saved to begin with.

First John 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Hebrews Chapter 6 (verses 4 to 6)
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

 

[Hisbygrace]

Sometimes people just get so distraught that they see no other way out of their situation. I believe that once you are saved you are always saved, and I do believe that you become a new creature in Christ. But there is some pain and anguish that go so deep it is hard to recover from it. Unless you have been there it is hard to understand. I am a Christian, but there have been times in my left when I just wanted to be out of this world. When I lost my husband was one of them. We had been married young, so he was all I knew most of my life, we were friends, lovers, confidants and help mates to one another. In my grief I started to contemplate suicide, but then God showed me that it is not my choice to choose my time. Yet there are others that are so caught up in their pain and grief that they are not open to the Holy Spirit directing them. What does God feel about suicide? I believe it breaks His heart, but He doesn't stop loving you. He only wishes that you could have trusted Him more.

 

[Bill777]

Sometimes people just get so distraught that they see no other way out of their situation. I believe that once you are saved you are always saved, and I do believe that you become a new creature in Christ. But there is some pain and anguish that go so deep it is hard to recover from it. Unless you have been there it is hard to understand. I am a Christian, but there have been times in my left when I just wanted to be out of this world. When I lost my husband was one of them. We had been married young, so he was all I knew most of my life, we were friends, lovers, confidants and help mates to one another. In my grief I started to contemplate suicide, but then God showed me that it is not my choice to choose my time. Yet there are others that are so caught up in their pain and grief that they are not open to the Holy Spirit directing them. What does God feel about suicide? I believe it breaks His heart, but He doesn't stop loving you. He only wishes that you could have trusted Him more.

I don't know, you obviously have a point. Still if this topic interests you I would recommend reading "City of God" by Augustine. He discourages christians to commit suicide to avoid torture during the roman empire, or christian women to commit suicide to prevent rape by unbelieving captors (something that apparently occured during the roman empire). Even in those cases Augustine was clear it is preferably to be tortured to death by unbelievers, thrown to the lions, than committing suicide. It is better for a woman to be brutally raped by unbelieving beasts than commit suicide. So Augustine points out that if we commit suicide, we sin, we commit homicide. Instead if we allow barbarians to torture us, it is them that commit the sin, and God will punish them. If a christian is raped brutally by several men, she does not sin but it is the rapists that sin and will face the fury of God, but if she commits suicide to avoid the raping it is her that sins. Now I'm not going to say that some of these christians that committed suicide in the midst of persecution may not have gone to heaven. Even Augustine says, who would not forgive under those circumstances, but it is still sin to commit suicide. I agree with St Augustine that suicide is never justified, not even in the harshest of circumstances because we violate the command you shall not kill.

The book the City of God by Augustine is on the internet if you want to read it.

 

[SonOfThunder]

1) 2) I agree you can't lose your salvation but I believe that somebody that commits suicide was never saved to begin with. Like First John says, "They went out from us but they were never from us". God only knows, but chances are high that somebody that commits suicide was never saved.

Interesting that mental illness and grief unbearable might fit into this category of never being saved in the first place, do NO Christians backslide? do NO Christians suffer to an extent that they don't adhere to what The Bible says?
Are Christians who do not read The Bible often but have a simple faith in Jesus and then get to a point of taking thir own lives never saved in the first place?

Sometimes people just get so distraught that they see no other way out of their situation. I believe that once you are saved you are always saved, and I do believe that you become a new creature in Christ. But there is some pain and anguish that go so deep it is hard to recover from it. Unless you have been there it is hard to understand. I am a Christian, but there have been times in my left when I just wanted to be out of this world. When I lost my husband was one of them. We had been married young, so he was all I knew most of my life, we were friends, lovers, confidants and help mates to one another. In my grief I started to contemplate suicide, but then God showed me that it is not my choice to choose my time. Yet there are others that are so caught up in their pain and grief that they are not open to the Holy Spirit directing them. What does God feel about suicide? I believe it breaks His heart, but He doesn't stop loving you. He only wishes that you could have trusted Him more.

You are right about it is not your choice, but that is thinking with a logical mind which goes when you are very suicidal.
We begin with the recognition that, from a biblical perspective, issues of life and death lie in the sovereign hands of God alone. Job said to God, "Man's days are determined; you [O God] have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed" (Job 14:5). David said to God, "All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:16).It isn't ours to judge, nor is it ours to support suicide.

James