Women's role in the Church

[rachelrising]

This thread title and idea really just came to me today. I am a Christian. I am a non demontional. For me I can worship in any church that I think is following Biblical law fully. I am lucky in these days that the church I attend is just two minutes from me and so perfect for me. I looked for a forum this may fit like general discussion but couldn’t find one. Please move if more suited elsewhere.

As my name suggests I am a female. Sometimes though I feel a bit from a different generation. I fully support every action in the Bible towards women. God had reasons. I support women’s rights and I know transition can happen through Church history and modern life.

Some women cannot get past these things to become potentially become Christian about what they as women’s treatment in the Bible. I was given a Women’s Bible as a gift. In the first few chapters there was like many references I didn’t want to get tangled up with it.

Critically we know Jesus’ disciples were all male and that time there was definitely a purpose for that. My rectors in my church are all females and do a tremendous job and women can and do. There were women prophetesses for example like Anna who dedicatedly served the Lord in the Temple as a brilliant example to everyone. Women today still serve in this role. This is high school material to me as well in some description as I remember this as a topic in my Catholic school. There are also other jobs women fulfil like nuns and sisters. Some are in the community and some not. Some women work in admin also. I think a woman can do anything. Some may be called to bear fruit and some just to serve the Lord.

The crux of the issue, there was no women in the 12 disciples. I think a woman can call themselves one, but as a non demontional sometimes I think that word fits me, but I struggle to use it as it was not done. With shorn hair, I cover my head still at church, my choice. I grew with us all I think covering our heads when we prayed at home. Paul gave women with shorn hair an exemption to not cover their heads. It is my choice.

Jesus came to fulfill the will of God. He was known to some as a rule breaker disappointely. In different circumstances better to do good none at all perhaps.

Just my thoughts, feel free to discuss or think over this and respond with any thoughts in a few days if you have them. Let us try and remain civil.

I am a for human rights, I am just not very modern.

Thoughts

Peace

 

[ronlion]

Hi dear sister Rachel! As you know the Gospels tell of Joanna and other women who would accompany Jesus and the 12 apostles. Joanna was instrumental in Jesus' incredible ministry and I forget the name of another woman who financially supported Jesus. There is also Phoebe who I think was a deacon and there are also others such as Priscilla who was a great teacher in the NT Church and a colleague of Paul! But I'm not a feminist to be very clear. I'm an equalist. Galatians 3:28 says there is no man or woman, all are one in Christ! God created both man and women in his image.
One of my best friends is a female reverend but she chooses not to pastor a church because she is a biblicist and women should not teach men but instead she told me just yesterday that she is called to be a servant-we all are men and women, she told me. She is highly educated yet volunteers in a soup kitchen. invites people from her church who have trouble feeding their family(Florida!)to her house to have dinner with her. She as a teen and in her twenties would take care of babies with AIDS in New York from various communities.

She truly will not be low in the kingdom of heaven. She loves people of all colors yet she goes to Trump rallies and is a huge supporter of his. She inspires me but not she really but Christ in her and in all our amazing Christian sisters of all colors in America, and the remotest nations of the world.

Christian women of all colors are called the beloved daughters of God in the New Testament! No higher praise to women can be given!

I remember once reading a commentator who said that one title of God in the Bible refers to him as " Mother's breast-milk- giving God." I haven't done the research to see if that is accurate. But it possibly is true. We desperately need our amazing Christian women to teach Christian youth, both male and female!

My most beloved girlfriend who died unexpectedly of breast cancer before I could marry her-I would've traded my life for her, also inspired me but not her but CHRIST in her. She had degrees from a top university much, smarter than I for sure in languages; she was a truly modern Christian American woman but she told me that the New Testament Greek makes it clear that woman should not pastor over men. (I'm not judging any female pastors-I love you as my true most beloved sisters-I'm not Jesus Christ so I'm very, very sorry if I have offended any of the true daughters of God. It is Jesus who decides what position a woman has in the Church.-not lowly me! Please read the entire post before anyone hammers me-thanks!)

I'm now remembering how my sweetest girlfriend's fingertips split open during chemo, and when the docs drilled a hole in my sweethearts chest to drain her lungs almost daily after the cancer spread to her lungs. How the cancer spread to her liver which caused my beauty's belly to swell up like a beachball. She was so valiant-she was 10 times the Christian that I am. I would tell her that I saw Christ in her. I can't write anymore about her-it's hard but Luke 12:32 gives me the strength to go on. (For my Christian sisters let me warn you that even 1 alcoholic drink can give you breast and many other cancers.)
Take care Rachel and may Christ bless you and all the believers!
-Christian women are the true daughters of God and are made in his image. Woman need not to have been among the 12 Apostles for them to have an equally important -yet different- role in the Body of Christ as Priscilla(Prisca) did!

These statistics come Dr. Paul Elliot, the Barna Research Group, Bible Literacy Center, and Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion(from about 2011):

• Nearly 75% of Evangelical young people leave the church when they reach adulthood. Their main stated reason is that they no longer believe the Bible is true, and the church has done little or nothing to answer their doubts.

OT event's True Images from 2700 years ago. Free for Sunday Schools, Youth studies, VBS etc. They were discovered in the proven ruins of Nineveh.

 

[rachelrising]

Thank you dear ronlion. Thank you for taking the time to post and share. Much of this was like music to my ears. I have never heard of Joanna and some of the women mentioned above so cannot wait to research more about it, tomorrow after church! When you wrote you said you was an equalist I said Amen and several other points to. I am more of a kind of egalitarian, freedom for everyone. I follow the rules, but am like Jesus did he operated by the spirit and letter of them sometimes.

There were numerous notable women in the Old Testament.
It went like this, I wrote this.
In the Old Testament, Miriam was a prophetess (Exodus 15-20) "Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron.... Sing to the LORD, For He has triumphed gloriously! The horse and its rider. He has thrown into the Sea!"
So to was Deborah in the Old Testament a prophetess (Judges 4:4). Deborah was a prophetess and judge and she led the children of Israel to peace for forty years by her prophesies she gave to Barak to go to battle against Sisera. Huldah was also a prophetess (2 Kings 22:14) (2 Chronicles 34:22). Huldah was sought out by King Josiah to authenticate the Book of Law. In the Old Testament Noadiah is also a female prophetess (Nehemiah 6:14).

Then we went I believe to Anna and Philip with his 4 daughters. Cannot as I wrote wait to read about the women you posted.

Thank you for this knowledge passed on.

 

[Paidiske]

You might like to check out the egalitarian forum here: Egalitarian Christians

 

[PloverWing]

There were no women in the list of 12, but there were more than 12 people who followed Jesus, learned from him, and were sent to carry his message. Luke's gospel, for example mentions a group of 72, with no indication of their gender (see Luke 10). In addition to the names that ronlion listed above, I'll mention Mary of Bethany, who was specifically invited to be a disciple at Jesus' feet even though there were domestic chores to be done, and Mary Magdalene, who was sent to tell others about the Resurrection.

My church allows women to serve as bishops, priests, deacons, and lay leaders. My current bishop is a woman, and I am a lay leader in my church (senior warden).

 

[rachelrising]

I did take some time to read about Priscilla, Phoebe and Joanna. They can be found in the Bible here-
Joanna Luke 8: 1-3 23:55 24:10
Priscilla Acts 18:2 18 26 Romans 16:3 1 Corinthians 16:19 2 Timothy 4:19
Phoebe Romans 16 1: 2

I have done some additional reading as well. I found it very interesting and it made me think. I like to think and ask myself questions even about my role etc. I did mention in an earlier post that all the rectors in my church are female and that I find them all very humble and that is still the case like I mentioned above in my first post. This was a thread on women pastors which I replied to. What particularly interested me here, was that my questions around myself that there essentially were no women among the 12 disciples which I found interesting too.

Women pastors

I heard somewhat that Non-denominational churches are more likely to ordain women into the ministry as opposed to Southern Baptists, who prohibit women from holding ordained positions. What has been your experience as a member of an on-denominational Christian? Does your church have or allow...

www.christianforums.com

The three women above all served in supportive roles. Time moves on as I wrote above. It continues to be interesting for sure and something to mull over for me personally.

 

[jas3]

I looked for a forum this may fit like general discussion but couldn’t find one. Please move if more suited elsewhere.

You may want to ask a moderator to move the thread to Christian Philosophy and Ethics (under "Discussion and Debate (Christians Only)") or Christian Apologetics Center (under "Theology"), since this particular forum is more meant for coordination and supportive discussion of ministry activities. I think the standard way to do this is to report your own post and put your request in the text box.

I'd be happy to discuss further if the thread is moved, but for now I'll just say I think it's admirable that you follow St. Paul's instruction on head covering when so many today have abandoned it.

 

[rachelrising]

Thank you, I will consider asking to be moved.

My reasons why I choose to cover my head are multiple and not just because of Paul as mentioned.
I grew up doing so it is like tradition for me. I served briefly as a teen in church and it is was required of me for that role. I do it as a mark of respect as I am before God and not man. I do as it as well to signify that I am just human and far beneath God. Paul mentions as well. It is for multiple reasons. No-one else does it in my church and I don't expect it of others.

Sometimes we need to ask uncomfortable questions. Many with curious minds ask the same question that in Jesus' time there was no women among the 12 disciples who ministred and why do you think that is.

I believe women can do anything, but we need to all be comfortable with what we do. We are all indviduals.

You may want to ask a moderator to move the thread to Christian Philosophy and Ethics (under "Discussion and Debate (Christians Only)") or Christian Apologetics Center (under "Theology"), since this particular forum is more meant for coordination and supportive discussion of ministry activities. I think the standard way to do this is to report your own post and put your request in the text box.

I'd be happy to discuss further if the thread is moved, but for now I'll just say I think it's admirable that you follow St. Paul's instruction on head covering when so many today have abandoned it.

 

[rachelrising]

A few things have been going on for me. I have tried to do a bit of witnessing myself. I have made some observations of acts I consider as quite violent when witnessing in others. I also have some health issues right now and just want to make sure for myself I am doing what I feel is right for me and what is required of me. You also wonder how you can support others as well.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm sorry you've faced violence from others. Unfortunately, that does tend to come with the territory, with ministry.

Not everybody is required to do the same thing. The body of believers needs eyes, feet, hands, and so on. It's worth considering what your gifts are and where they are most needed.

 

[Rose_bud]

Sometimes we need to ask uncomfortable questions. Many with curious minds ask the same question that in Jesus' time there was no women among the 12 disciples who ministred and why do you think that is.

Hi rachelrising

As another poster pointed out there were alot more disciples than the 12, some of them women. The women disciples were the first to share the message of the ressurrection, which is the crux of the faith. My view of the 12 being prominent in the scriptures especially the gospels and beginning of Acts is to highlight the story of Israel its foundation and its continuation. Jesus came to destroy the old temple with its many dividing walls. ie walls dividing Gentiles from Jews, walls dividing male from female, walls dividing poor from rich, etc. The authors through the reference to the 12 were pointing out how Jesus created a new foundation for His new temple that had no more dividing walls, but that was moving and expanding in Him. The temple had its origins in Israel history as a people with its reference to 12, but it was always more than 12. A study on the temple in Christ will make you shout hallelujah, to what He has done as a sacrificial lamb and the new High priest!!! Also Acts shows how Jesus meets everyone outside of the temple, the lame, blind they encountered Him outside whereas in the past His presence was known to be inside the physical temple. A new temple was inaugurated and was growing.
Jesus was also mindful of the norms of his culture in the prominence of men, but likewise challenging this in the way he interacted with women, ascribing to them dignity, respect, equality and worth. A reflection of how His new temple should operate.