They could be called a priest of Pentecost.
Or a priest of the Holy Spirit.
Never said they were.Actually all it implies is female priests. Which you support. Why were the Pagans better than Christians on this issue?
They were teachers and prophets.And they weren't pastors or elders.
He appointed Deborah as judge over the whole nation.Why didnt he then appoint women as leaders over men? Either in his time or the time of the Apostles?
Legitimately, according to who?Their part howrver is not in being clerics, which they can never legitimately be.
So if women can't be ordained because Jesus had 12 male disciples, Gentiles should not be able to be ordained because the 12 were Jewish.No he was deliberate in first excluding gentiles.
Not priestesses or Bishops though.They were teachers and prophets.
and did he appoint a female levitical priestess at any time? Why couldnt Israel do what Pagans were doing? Whely were the Pagans better than God at the time?-He appointed Deborah as judge over the whole nation.
If you want to know why he didn't appoint anyone else, you'll have to ask him.
Are you a Mormon who believes Apostles still exist? The Apostles appoint bishops and elders.So if women can't be ordained because Jesus had 12 male disciples, Gentiles should not be able to be ordained because the 12 were Jewish.
No, are you?Are you a Mormon who believes Apostles still exist?
Deborah was a prophetessThey were teachers and prophets
The same argument can be made for the Levitical priesthood. The requirement for the Levitical priesthood did not only include being male... it was a lot more stringent including, priest were not to be Gentiles. So he didn't appoint female priests under the Old covenant, he didn't appoint male gentiles either.No, are you?
You previously asked if Jesus was too cowardly to appoint a woman, if that had been his intention. Post #57.
The argument that women cannot be ordained because Jesus had only men as his closest disciples is one that has come up often. My response was to point out that he only chose circumcised Jews as his 12 closest disciples.
So logically, if clergy cannot be women because Jesus would have had female disciples if he had wanted women to lead; it follows that clergy must be Jewish, because Jesus would have appointed Gentile disciples had he wanted them.
One possibility is that polygamy continued to be practiced in the Jewish diaspora beyond the borders of the Roman empire. But I admit I have not looked into that in depth.Jew's also had rules for slaves as well. But I did read that jew's did not stop polygamy until after the diaspora, from Jewish (rabbininic) sources. Jew's were also given exemption from the Roman's, at least from Idol's . It would be difficult to continue a practice, in a culture that had no law to regulate polygamy at all, let alone frown on it. But Rome did allow religious practice and enforcement within certain provinces by religious leaders..
Yes, she proclaimed God's word to men.Deborah was a prophetess
But he appoints both today.So he didn't appoint female priests under the Old covenant, he didn't appoint male gentiles either.
Not only his closest disciples but the men they also chose and put in place to be leaders of the community. They did not appoint women to those positions. One must ask the question why.No, are you?
You previously asked if Jesus was too cowardly to appoint a woman, if that had been his intention. Post #57.
The argument that women cannot be ordained because Jesus had only men as his closest disciples is one that has come up often. My response was to point out that he only chose circumcised Jews as his 12 closest disciples.
So logically, if clergy cannot be women because Jesus would have had female disciples if he had wanted women to lead; it follows that clergy must be Jewish, because Jesus would have appointed Gentile disciples had he wanted them.
That could be. But it was not mentioned in that sense. But still a possibilityOne possibility is that polygamy continued to be practiced in the Jewish diaspora beyond the borders of the Roman empire. But I admit I have not looked into that in depth.
I just don't see why it should be any different than priest, just of the male and female persuasion. Pagans are pagans, non pagan is non pagan is all. But for you I understand your sensitive, I just don't understand the why of it, as there were pagan priests to is all.As to "priestess" being a slur (which I have already explained); that is stated quite clearly here: priestess - Wiktionary, the free dictionary The three meanings it gives for the terms are:
priestess (plural priestesses, masculine priest)
- A woman with religious duties and responsibilities in certain non-Christian religions. synonyms ▲hyponyms ▼quotations ▼Synonyms: gythja, kahuna, mamaloi, mambo, miko
- (religious slur, uncommon) A female Christian priest or minister, typically in a Protestant, Old Catholic, or independent Catholic denomination. quotations ▼
- (colloquial, obsolete) A priest’s wife. synonyms ▲quotations ▼Synonyms: presbytera, presbyteress
CF has habitually treated speaking of Christian clergy as "priestesses" as flaming.
Deborah was a prophetess. Was it her office of prophet that she was a judge at all?If Deborah can be a Judge and the men of Israel go to her for learning, then a woman can be a priest/minister/pastor. If Priscilla and Junia can be apostles and the former be given preeminence over her husband, then women can be priests/ministers/pastors. The only explicit prohibition I find in scripture is that of elder. Priest? Yes. Apostle? Yes. Elder? No.
There is neither male or female in Christ.
Absolutely true. The desire for power is a great big red flag that this person is unsuitable for ministry!If it's about power for someone, then they should stay away from the pulpit.
Yes, she proclaimed God's word to men.
She was a judge too, and sorted out men's disputes. She was also a leader - anointed by God.
Do you believe there is differences in gender role in marriage and in families?
Beyond what is necessitated by the biology of reproduction, no.
Yes, Deborah was a prophet, but she was also a Judge, and as such she judged men, prophesied God's word, and led men (and women).Deborah was a prophetess. Was it her office of prophet that she was a judge at all?
My understanding would be quite different. God created humankind in his image, and that image is not about our physicality, our biology, our sexed-ness (or gendered nature). To be in the image of God is to be rational, to be loving, to be creative, to be relational, to be able to exercise dominion over creation, and so on; it is not about what chromosomes or other physical characteristics we have.For me, God created people in his image, and that image included our gender. God created his image bearers to be gendered, to reveal something about his image. Procreation was commanded after the creation of people; God could have had us procreate without gender if he had so chosen. For me gender does not exist merely because of the biology of reproduction, what is your understanding?
To some extent. Certainly our lived experiences of reproduction (and everything that goes with that), are very different. In terms of differences in interaction, I tend to come down more on the nurture side of the nature/nurture argument.I am firmly of the view, that even if nothing else separates the genders psychologically, that merely the physical differences above will cause differences in how we interact and our lived experiences across a broad range of areas. Do you agree with this or not?
I see their angst. I just think it's misplaced. (I don't mean that unkindly).However, for those who firmly believe that the sacraments must be enabled by someone who meets their traditions historic requirements, and that without those requirements being meet the sacraments can no longer truly do what is required. Then I can see their greater angst on the issue.
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