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irenemcg

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I believe Jesus was talking to God when he said “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me”

in any event He is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father now

A point on which I hope we all can agree



John O.

And that's what it's all about, He died, shedding His precious blood for us, and His blood has washed away our sins. This same Jesus rose again and Hallelujah- JESUS IS ALIVE

Today He sits at the Father's right hand and some day He's coming back for us. This is what matters!
:clap: :clap:
 
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DevotiontoBible

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That is not what is being said:

The quote is My God my God why have YOU forsaken (abandoned) me.

Not why has the crowed abandoned me.

This is another miss quote, so not only are you miss quoting faith teachers, but you are also adding things to what Jesus apparently said.

Give me a break, its one thing to twist Hagins words, but another thing to twist the Word of God.

This to me is crazy.
You are illiterately reading my post. I said He was abandoned "to" the crowd not by them.
 
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Simon_Templar

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The use of the cry of Jesus "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" to teach that Jesus died spiritually and suffered a literal seperation in spirit from God the Father is an example of bad teaching resulting from undisciplined use of scriptures.

Whenever we read the scriptures, we must understand what we read, in light of the whole, and individual parts can not be used to bend whole over arching truths out of shape.

In other words, when the whole bible clearly teaches one idea, it is folly to take one verse and interpet in such a way as to explicitly contradict the teaching of the whole bible.

For example, The whole bible from beginning to end teaches the oneness, the complete unity of God as one being. We know that this one being has three persons also from scripture, and that all three persons are equal and all share the same natural characteristics. All are omnipresent, all are omniscient, all are eternal, all are omnipotent etc.

to then take one verse and teach that it is a complete contradiction to this, that the Son was seperated from the Father and experienced spiritual death, flies in the face of scripture and reason.
This is all the more true because it is based not on explicit statements in scripture, but rather on logic and inferences from scripture.

The scripture never says "Jesus died spiritually" rather this is infered from the statement that he paid the price of our sins.
The scripture never says "The Son was seperated from the Father" this is infered from the fact that Jesus cried out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

So, based on inferences and their own reasoning, they directly contradict the teaching of the entire people based on a few passages which could all easily be understood in ways that do not contradict the rest of scripture.

Looking at the cry from Jesus on the cross. The first thing of note, and probably the most important thing, is that Jesus is here quoting the opening line of the 22nd psalm.

This psalm is prophetic of Jesus on the cross. What we see here is a man in deep anguish crying out for relief, even while he realizes that God is still with him. The cry "why have you forsaken me" has not to do with the fact that he has been cut off from God, but rather with the fact that God has not delivered him from his suffering, but rather has allowed him to endure in his suffering.

This can be seen clearly in the opening of the psalm.

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning?"

It becomes clear in the psalm that the person speaking has NOT been abandon by God, but rather is expressing his deep agony and asking why God has not delivered him from his agony, and at the same time answering his own question.

The speaker in Psalm 22 goes through a litany of evils and sufferings that have come upon him, but at no point does he say, or hint that he believes God has abandoned him.

witness these sections...

9 Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10 On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11 Be not far from me,
for trouble is near,
and there is none to help.

and

19 But you, O Lord, do not be far off!
O you my help, come quickly to my aid!
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dog!
21 Save me from the mouth of the lion!
You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!

From that point the rest of the psalm is great praise to God for his provision and deliverance.

So often when Jesus went through his life he said and did things specifically to fulfill prophecy.
this also was a fulfilled prophecy. The 22nd psalm is amazing when you compare it to the crucifixion! It really makes one wonder how any Jew can possibly not believe in Jesus. But thats beside the point.

The point is This psalm was written fortelling the immense anguish that Jesus would suffer, and how he would feel in the midst of that anguish, He understood why he was there, he knew why he had to do all of this. He knew all that it would entail.

Jesus never had to ask "why?" in the same way we do, because he didn't know?
What he is doing here is crying out as an expression of anguish and torment.

Just like in the garden the night before, when he said to the Father "if it is possible, let this cup pass from me, but never the less not my will, but yours be done."

Jesus knew it was not possible, he knew he would have to drink the cup. People miss the point of these things because they forget Jesus' humanity. Its not that he thought the cup really could pass..

Most of us, I think have been in times and places, where we simply could not restrain ourselves from crying out... even though we knew already the answer.
Even when you know the answer and you are fully resolved to accept it, it is just the over whelming of emotion and anguish that you have to give it voice and let it be expressed.

going even a step further.

We all know that God is with us always. As Christians God is within us always. We are his temple. But there are times when you can feel his presense and times when you can not.
This doesn't mean that God has left you, it means that whatever you are experiencing at that moment has over-whelmed you and eclipsed your ability to sense that God is with you.

I know that you would all recognize and agree with this when it comes to us, but for some reason you demand that this can't be the case with Jesus, God must really have left him.

Yet, that is not possible. God can not leave God, God can not abandon God, God can not cease to be God.
 
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~RENEE~

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This bashing stuff is getting really old.

BTW for those that desire it.

tomnjerry.gif
 
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JimB

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This bashing stuff is getting really old.

BTW for those that desire it.

Is it bashing to recall outlandish statements made in public forums, like TV, magazines, books, etc. by men/women who should have had better sense than to put them out to the public for inspection.

I think not.

~Jim
If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.
~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
 
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psalms 91

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And yet another post into the wild blue yonder, lol. Actually it is bashing when two threads and more are needed for the same topic and if management would care to go back through topics for the last year I believe a pattern of this kind of posting could not only be developed but also specific posters could be identified that do it on a consistant basis
 
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psalms 91

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And yet another post into the wild blue yonder, lol. Actually it is bashing when two threads and more are needed for the same topic and if management would care to go back through topics for the last year I believe a pattern of this kind of posting could not only be developed but also specific posters could be identified that do it on a consistant basis
Bump
 
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Always in His Presence

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There are so many points of error that i thought it best to seperate it into one item at a time. And discuss one part at a time instead of everything on just one thread.

Then you wouldn't mind if we started pointing out and discussing the points of error in Catholicism?


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Vineyard.


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Calvary Chapel.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Assemblies of God.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Church of the Four Square.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Charismatic Methodist.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Charismatic Baptist.

Or is your assumption that the only group with points of error is Word of Faith?

Because, frankly, the Word of Faith is the only one ever dragged through the mud here.
 
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psalms 91

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Then you wouldn't mind if we started pointing out and discussing the points of error in Catholicism?


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Vineyard.


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Calvary Chapel.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Assemblies of God.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Church of the Four Square.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Charismatic Methodist.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Charismatic Baptist.

Or is your assumption that the only group with points of error is Word of Faith?

Because, frankly, the Word of Faith is the only one ever dragged through the mud here.
Amen
 
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PastorMike

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Death here means His life separated from His physical body. That is all the Bible ever talks about. Jesus was never separated spiritually from the Father and this proves it: Luke 23:46 (NLT)
Then Jesus shouted, "Father, I entrust my spirit into your hands!" And with those words he breathed his last.

Really! and why then did he revert to the impersonal... My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me...
 
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millerrod

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Then you wouldn't mind if we started pointing out and discussing the points of error in Catholicism?


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Vineyard.


And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Calvary Chapel.

And then we can point out and discuss the points of error with the Assemblies of God.

Out of your list wof is the only one that denies the truth of the Trinity. Which as a praecher you should know is a BIG thing it was what caused one of the first divisions of the Church after Christ and caused a mass exodus of JW and LDS from this forum.
And as you know the Catholic beliefs have taken a HARD beating here as well by you and others who are now complaining.
You cannot believe in the Trinity and state that Christ spirtually died or that Christ was seperated from God.
And as an Admin. you also know to be a part of CF teaching you must believe in the Trinity.
 
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millerrod

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Then you wouldn't mind if we started pointing out and discussing the points of error in Catholicism?



Out of your list wof is the only one that denies the truth of the Trinity. Which as a praecher you should know is a BIG thing it was what caused one of the first divisions of the Church after Christ and caused a mass exodus of JW and LDS from this forum.
And as you know the Catholic beliefs have taken a HARD beating here as well by you and others who are now complaining.
You cannot believe in the Trinity and state that Christ spirtually died or that Christ was seperated from God.
And as an Admin. you also know to be a part of CF teaching you must believe in the Trinity.
 
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