Woe to you, you who are seeking to justified by the law, you have fallen from Grace...

[Neogaia777]

Woe to you, you who are seeking to justified by the law, you have fallen from Grace...

Paraphrase from the words of Paul, and the key words here are: "You who are seeking to be "justified" by the law", or seeking to be justified by their keeping the law or by your keeping it...

Not all those who seek to obey or keep it, but only those who seek to be "justified" by doing it or by doing so, especially in their own selves or in their own strength and/or will and/or ability, etc, "justified" being the key word(s) here... For those who seek to obey it out of exceedingly great gratitude and great gratitude and love only, are the ones who are truly righteous...

Not the ones who think they can "earn" or attain to, or "get" anything from God by their obeying and/or keeping it either, (even if they truly did) for that would not be out of gratitude and love...

Not the ones either, who would want to come down on others for their not keeping it or not trying to be seeking to obey it either, or calling them "hyper-grace", or heretics, or false, or apostates, or "what-the-heck-ever", calling them great sinners or hating them, etc, or other terms or bad words they would call them for their not seeking to obey and/or keep it either... For it is actually the ones that would do and/or say that, and/or would come down on those others for that, that are actually the ones who are actually apostates or heretics, or are false, or are the ones who have truly fallen very far far away from grace, and are ven way more lost than those others, but do not see it... Anyway... for those that would do that (just mentioned) are even much, much worse than the ones who do not even seek to obey or keep it (the law)... They are the biggest hypocrites around, and it they who are the ones who are false, liars, hypocrites, apostates, heretics, etc...

It is those who seek to keep and/or obey it out of pure, the purest kind, of only very great gratitude and reciprocated love only, alone, who are truly righteous, and they see no need to be doing things like was just mentioned at all, for it is evil, and sin, great sin...

These ones (the latter just now mentioned) are not seeking to be justified by it, like the others are or think they can be, etc, because they know better, etc, they know it does not justify them or get them anything special from God at all, they just want to do it out of great love and great gratitude for God only alone, and that's it, they see it as one of the only things they can do for God in this world, and they only want to do it out just only love alone, and great, great gratitude, and they know they cannot be justified by it at all...

And these ones do not need to make any kind of "showy display" or brag or boast about it at all either, and they most certainly do not need to come down on others who do not, etc, for these ones think that is very evil, and is some evil of the worst kind, etc...

And these ones really do not like those other ones very much, and are trying to do their best to love them or show them love, but they do not make it easy in their opinion...

Woe to you, you who are seeking to "justified" by the law, you have fallen way, way, way far, far away from Grace... You are doing much evil, even greater evil than the ones not even seeking to obey it (the law)...

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

Are you advocating "continuing in sin so Grace may abound?"

 

[Neogaia777]

Are you advocating "continuing in sin so Grace may abound?"

No, I'm advocating only seeking to obey and/or keep the law out of only love and gratitude alone...

And one who truly does this does not, by his or her very nature, does not do "certain other things" that many are doing both in the world, and in (especially) religious circles, and on here...

And I would add that those doing such, or not, not doing such are some of the most evil and worst kinds of sinners around, even worse than sinners of the world...

And we see so many of them on here... It's very, very "sad"...

And they feel absolutely no guilt and/or shame (or regret) about it either...?

Also, very, very "sad"...

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

Good. I am asking to get you to give voice to the fact that obedience does not have to be for self righteous reasons. and those who INSIST that the only way to make sure y0u are being in Grace is to intentionally sin on occasion.

 

[Neogaia777]

Good. I am asking to get you to give voice to the fact that obedience does not have to be for self righteous reasons.

Yes, that is part of what I'm saying...

and those who INSIST that the only way to make sure you are being in Grace is to intentionally sin on occasion.

I think this is ridiculous...

That's definitely not the right attitude or outlook to have either...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Good. I am asking to get you to give voice to the fact that obedience does not have to be for self righteous reasons.

All too often it is though, with many, especially in religious circles, and especially on here a lot...

And how many of them do we see on here a lot...?

More than I'd like to see really...

And what right do we have to come down on others for not being like us, or not seeking to keep and/or obey it/them (the law, or the nature of the laws)...

We know it is for our good, (if done rightly) (and for the right motivations and reasons, etc) (already mentioned, etc) anyway, and/but who are we to come down on others who do not as of yet see it that way (for themselves) etc, the way some do (come down on them), etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

"Justified" is the key word here...

You cannot be one of those who in any way shape or form seeks or thinks they can be "justified" by their keeping and/or obeying the law, etc...

These ones will often show their true colors, in/by the way the act and/or behave and/or "are", etc... Clearly "self-righteousness", etc... Not right at all, etc... Even very evil, etc...

But, if your trying to keep it/them, but always have in mind that you absolutely for 100% sure know there is no way you can ever, ever be "justified" or anything by them, or by your keeping them, in any way, shape, or form, etc, then your probably doing pretty well, and are on the right track, but lest you ever forget that, it will come out in the way you act and/or behave and/or are, etc, especially toward others, etc, and will expose you, etc...

God Bless!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Woe to you, you who are seeking to justified by the law, you have fallen from Grace...

Paraphrase from the words of Paul, and the key words here are: "You who are seeking to be "justified" by the law", or seeking to be justified by their keeping the law or by your keeping it...

Not all those who seek to obey or keep it, but only those who seek to be "justified" by doing it or by doing so, especially in their own selves or in their own strength and/or will and/or ability, etc, "justified" being the key word(s) here... For those who seek to obey it out of exceedingly great gratitude and great gratitude and love only, are the ones who are truly righteous...

Not the ones who think they can "earn" or attain to, or "get" anything from God by their obeying and/or keeping it either, (even if they truly did) for that would not be out of gratitude and love...

Not the ones either, who would want to come down on others for their not keeping it or not trying to be seeking to obey it either, or calling them "hyper-grace", or heretics, or false, or apostates, or "what-the-heck-ever", calling them great sinners or hating them, etc, or other terms or bad words they would call them for their not seeking to obey and/or keep it either... For it is actually the ones that would do and/or say that, and/or would come down on those others for that, that are actually the ones who are actually apostates or heretics, or are false, or are the ones who have truly fallen very far far away from grace, and are ven way more lost than those others, but do not see it... Anyway... for those that would do that (just mentioned) are even much, much worse than the ones who do not even seek to obey or keep it (the law)... They are the biggest hypocrites around, and it they who are the ones who are false, liars, hypocrites, apostates, heretics, etc...

It is those who seek to keep and/or obey it out of pure, the purest kind, of only very great gratitude and reciprocated love only, alone, who are truly righteous, and they see no need to be doing things like was just mentioned at all, for it is evil, and sin, great sin...

These ones (the latter just now mentioned) are not seeking to be justified by it, like the others are or think they can be, etc, because they know better, etc, they know it does not justify them or get them anything special from God at all, they just want to do it out of great love and great gratitude for God only alone, and that's it, they see it as one of the only things they can do for God in this world, and they only want to do it out just only love alone, and great, great gratitude, and they know they cannot be justified by it at all...

And these ones do not need to make any kind of "showy display" or brag or boast about it at all either, and they most certainly do not need to come down on others who do not, etc, for these ones think that is very evil, and is some evil of the worst kind, etc...

And these ones really do not like those other ones very much, and are trying to do their best to love them or show them love, but they do not make it easy in their opinion...

Woe to you, you who are seeking to "justified" by the law, you have fallen way, way, way far, far away from Grace... You are doing much evil, even greater evil than the ones not even seeking to obey it (the law)...

God Bless!

and to @Dave-W also

Hi Neo, It is much simpler than all that. Even as good as this sounds: "It is those who seek to keep and/or obey it out of pure, the purest kind, of only very great gratitude and reciprocated love only, alone, who are truly righteous" This can be in our own power too, which is still self-righteousness.

If it is done with the carnal nature still in place, what good is it. It is no better than those under the law in Romans 7!

What is missing from your post is the power of the Holy Spirit. We must be born again of the Spirit, that changes our carnal nature to the DIVINE NATURE. It is no longer our own self-righteousness, but through walking in the Spirit.

 

[Neogaia777]

and to @Dave-W also

Hi Neo, It is much simpler than all that. Even as good as this sounds: "It is those who seek to keep and/or obey it out of pure, the purest kind, of only very great gratitude and reciprocated love only, alone, who are truly righteous" This can be in our own power too, which is still self-righteousness.

If it is done with the carnal nature still in place, what good is it. It is no better than those under the law in Romans 7!

What is missing from your post is the power of the Holy Spirit. We must be born again of the Spirit, that changes our carnal nature to the DIVINE NATURE. It is no longer our own self-righteousness, but through walking in the Spirit.

If you can do what I'm saying, out of just only pure love and great gratitude alone, how would or could that not be of the Holy Spirit, especially if it involves submitting your will over to God's will, which is the only way I think it can ever truly be done...

But, you are right though, and it is one thing I guess I forgot to mention, this that I say about doing, can only truly be done when one follows after or turns themselves wholly over wholly to the Holy Spirit...

If you try to do it in your own will/strength, etc, it will more than likely just be self-righteousness...

But love and gratitude means, by it's very nature, "submission" though, so more than likely cannot be walking in your own will or way ever, but God's for you, etc...

The Holy Spirit will you give you the power and strength and ability, not your own, and not of yourself when you do...

God Bless!

 

[CharismaticLady]

If you can do what I'm saying, out of just only pure love and great gratitude alone, how would or could that not be of the Holy Spirit, especially if it involves submitting your will over to God's will, which is the only way I think it can ever truly be done...

Without acknowledging the Spirit, you make it all about self. That should be a product of being filled with the Holy Spirit. The carnal nature cannot do that consistently without pure willpower. Don't you know that there were many Jews trying to do just that while being under the law. Look at Acts 2 - those were "devout" Jews. They could keep the law perfectly, and lived it. So did the Pharisees. But Jesus said, " 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." We must be born again of the Spirit.

 

[Neogaia777]

Without acknowledging the Spirit, you make it all about self. That should be a product of being filled with the Holy Spirit. The carnal nature cannot do that consistently without pure willpower. Don't you know that there were many Jews trying to do just that while being under the law. Look at Acts 2 - those were "devout" Jews. They could keep the law perfectly, and lived it. So did the Pharisees. But Jesus said, " 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." We must be born again of the Spirit.

To be born again of the Spirit one first has to die, then experience "re-birth", which I believe has happened to me in my life, I just wasn't heavily focusing on the Spirit for the point of this thread, but, in a way you are right, I should have included the Spirit in there somehow...

But I wasn't talking about being born again, per-say, which is why I didn't get into it too much, my focus was more on the right and wrong focus in trying to obey and/or keep or follow after the law in general, the reasons and motivations and the thoughts and intentions of the heart and having the right kind of heart in it, etc...

Guess everybody is a critic though, right...?

It's not like I just "forgot" about the Spirit though, quite the opposite actually, the Spirit is always first and foremost on my mind, etc...

God Bless!

 

[CharismaticLady]

To be born again of the Spirit one first has to die, then experience "re-birth", which I believe has happened to me in my life, I just wasn't heavily focusing on the Spirit for the point of this thread, but, in a way you are right, I should have included the Spirit in there somehow...

But I wasn't talking about being born again, per-say, which is why I didn't get into it too much, my focus was more on the right and wrong focus in trying to obey and/or keep or follow after the law in general, the reasons and motivations and the thoughts and intentions of the heart and having the right kind of heart in it, etc...

Guess everybody is a critic though, right...?

It's not like I just "forgot" about the Spirit though, quite the opposite actually, the Spirit is always first and foremost on my mind, etc...

God Bless!

On this forum, you are not just talking to people who already know about the Spirit. The "Christian" walk I did before and after the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the difference between night and day. The Spirit of Christ MUST get all the credit.

 

[Neogaia777]

On this forum, you are not just talking to people who already know about the Spirit. The "Christian" walk I did before and after the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the difference between night and day. The Spirit of Christ MUST get all the credit.

I guess I just "assumed", and you know what they say about that don't you...?

Anyway, I'll try to do better next time, K...

God Bless!

 

[1213]

....You are doing much evil, even greater evil than the ones not even seeking to obey it (the law)...

The Law is, love your neighbor as yourself, I really don’t see how person who does that could be more evil than person who don’t want to do so.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

 

[Neogaia777]

The Law is, love your neighbor as yourself, I really don’t see how person who does that could be more evil than person who don’t want to do so.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I'm talking about those who claim they are following after the law who are being and/or doing anything but being "loving", etc...

God Bless!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I guess I just "assumed", and you know what they say about that don't you...?

Anyway, I'll try to do better next time, K...

God Bless!

I just love you!!!

 

[Neogaia777]

I just love you!!!

Lol, Love you to Sis,

God Bless!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Woe to you, you who are seeking to justified by the law, you have fallen from Grace...

Paraphrase from the words of Paul, and the key words here are: "You who are seeking to be "justified" by the law", or seeking to be justified by their keeping the law or by your keeping it...

Not all those who seek to obey or keep it, but only those who seek to be "justified" by doing it or by doing so, especially in their own selves or in their own strength and/or will and/or ability, etc, "justified" being the key word(s) here... For those who seek to obey it out of exceedingly great gratitude and great gratitude and love only, are the ones who are truly righteous...
God Bless!

"Justified" is the key word here...
You cannot be one of those who in any way shape or form seeks or thinks they can be "justified" by their keeping and/or obeying the law, etc...
God Bless!

Some verses:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
search "justified law"

1344. dikaioo from 1342; to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent:--free, justify(-ier), be righteous.
Occurs 48 times in 36 verses

G1344: δικαιόω, -ῶ; future δικαιώσω; 1 aorist ἐδικαίωσα; passive [present δικαιοῦμαι]; perfect δεδικαίωμαι; 1 aorist ἐδικαιώθην; future δικαιωθήσομαι; (δίκαιος); Sept. for צִדֵּק and הִצְדִּיק;
1. properly, (according to the analogy of other verbs ending in όω, as τυφλόω, δουλόω) to make δίκαιος; to render righteous or such as he ought to be; (Vulg. justifico); but this meaning is extremely rare, if not altogether doubtful; ἐδικαίωσα τὴν καρδίαν μου stands for לְבָבִי זִכִּיתִי in Psalm 72:13 (Ps. 73:13) (unless I have shown my heart to be upright be preferred as the rendering of the Greek there).
2. τινά, to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered (Ezekiel 16:51f; τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ, Jeremiah 3:11, and, probably, δικαιοῦν δίκαιον, Isaiah 53:11): ἡ σοφία ἐδικαιώθη ἀπὸ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς, the wisdom taught and exemplified by John the Baptist, and by Jesus, gained from its disciples (i. e. from their life, character, and deeds) the benefit of being shown to be righteous, i. e. true and divine [cf. Buttmann, 322 (277); others interpret, was acknowledged to be righteous on the part of (nearly equivalent to by) her children; cf. Buttmann, 325 (280); see ἀπό, II. 2 d. bb.], Luke 7:35; Matthew 11:19 [here T Tr text WH read ἔργων, i. e. by her works]; passive, of Christ: ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, evinced to be righteous as to his spiritual (divine [(?) cf. e. g. Ellicott at the passage or Meyer on Romans 1:4]) nature, 1 Timothy 3:16; of God: ὅπως δικαιωθῇς ἐν τοῖς λόγοις σου, Romans 3:4 from Psalm 50:6 (Psalms 51:6) (κύριος μόνος δικαιωθήσεται, Sir. 18:2); passive used reflexively, to show oneself righteous: of men, Revelation 22:11 Rec.; (τί δικαιωθῶμεν; Genesis 44:16).
3. τινά, to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be, (cf. ὁμοιόω to declare to be like, liken, i. e. compare; ὁσιόω, Wis. 6:11; ἀξιόω, which never means to make worthy, but to judge worthy, to declare worthy, to treat as worthy; see also κοινόω, 2 b.);
a. with the negative idea predominant, to declare guiltless one accused or who may be accused, acquitted of a charge or reproach, (Deuteronomy 25:1; Sir. 13:22 (Sir. 13:21), etc.; an unjust judge is said δικαιοῦν τὸν ἀσεβῆ in Exodus 23:7;.................

Act 13:39
“and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Rom 2:13
(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Gal 2:16
“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:11
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”
Gal 3:24
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
==================================
Revelation 11 appears to be showing the OC Mosaic Court of the Priest being cast out of the Temple in Revelation.......
Whether it is symbolizing the Court in Herod's Temple I am unsure.
Any thoughts on this?

Reve 11:1,2 Sanctuary, Tabernacle, Altar, Court and Holy City

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court [court of Priests?] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading forty two months.
=================================
Meyer's NT Commentary
Galatians 5:4. But whosoever is justified through the law—a way of justification which necessarily follows from the already mentioned obligation—is separated from Christ, etc. A complete explanation is thus given as to the Χριστὸς ὑμᾶς οὐδὲν ὠφελήσει. Asyndetic (without δέ), and reverting to the second person, the language of Paul is the more emphatic and vivid.

κατηργήθητε] In the first clause the stress is laid upon the dread separation which has befallen them, in the second on the benefit thereby lost,—a striking alternation of emphasis. The pregnant expression, καταργεῖσθαι ἀπό τινος (comp. Romans 9:3; 2 Corinthians 11:3; see generally, Fritzsche ad Rom. II. p. 250), is to be resolved into καταργεῖσθαι καὶ χωρίζεσθαι ἀπό τινος, that is, to come to nothing in regard to the relation hitherto subsisting with any one, so that we are parted from him. Just the same in Romans 7:2; Romans 7:6. Hence the sense is: your connection with Christ is annulled, cancelled; ἀπεκόπητε, Oecumenius. Justification by the law and justification for Christ’s sake are in truth opposita (works—faith), so that the one excludes the other.

οἵτινες ἐν νόμῳ δικαιοῦσθε] ye who are being justified through the law. The directly assertive and present δικαιοῦσθε is said from the mental standpoint of the subjects concerned, in whose view of the matter the way of salvation is this: “through the law, with which our conduct agrees (comp. Galatians 3:11), we become just before God.” Hence the concrete statement is not to be weakened either by taking δικαιοῦσθαι in the sense of ζητεῖν δικαιοῦσθαι, Galatians 2:17 (Rückert, Baumgarten-Crusius, and earlier expositors), or by attributing a hypothetical sense to οἵτινες (Hofmann, who erroneously compares Thuc. v. 16. 1). Whomsoever Paul hits with his οἵτινες κ.τ.λ., he also means.
=======================
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
4. The same great and solemn truth is repeated in different terms. “Christ shall profit you nothing” = “a debtor to do the whole law” (and therefore under a curse in consequence of failure) = “Christ is of no effect unto you” = “ye are fallen from grace”. Similarly, “if ye become circumcised” = “every man that submits to circumcision” = “justified by the law”.

Christ is become of no effect] Lit. ‘ye were cut off from Christ’, brought to nought as regards any benefit accruing to you from Him.

are justified by the law] i.e. seek to be justified by the law.

ye are fallen] Probably, ‘ye are cast forth’ (like Hagar and her son), banished from grace. The Apostle is not here stating anything as to the possibility of recovery after such a relapse. His object is to make it quite clear that if righteousness (or justification) is sought in the law (i.e. by works) it involves the forfeiture of grace, and the forfeiture of grace is ruin.
============================
Bengel's Gnomen
Galatians 5:4. Κατηργήθητε ἀπὸ τοῦ Χριστοῦ [Engl. Vers. Christ is become of no effect]) Your connection with Christ is made void: so the Vulgate.[45] One might be inclined to say in German, ohne werden, “to become without.” Comp. Galatians 5:2; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:6.—δικαιοῦσθε, are justified) Seek righteousness. In the middle voice.—τῆς χάριτος ἐξεπέσατε, ye have fallen from grace) Comp. Galatians 5:3. You have fallen from the New Testament, in all the wide comprehension of that expression. It is we that are and stand in grace, rather than grace is in us; comp. Romans 5:2.

[45] “Evacuati estis a Christo.” Wahl renders it, “divelli et prorsus dimoveri a Christo,” to be torn off and utterly parted asunder from Christ. Comp. κατήργηται ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου, Romans 7:2.—ED.
===================================
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 4. - Christ is become of no effect unto you (κατηργήθητε ἀπὸ τοῦ Ξριστοῦ); or, ye have disconnected yourselves from Christ. The verb καταργεῖν is a favourite word with St. Paul, occurring twenty-seven times in his Epistles, including twice in the Hebrews, whilst in the rest of the New Testament it occurs only once, and that in the Pauline St. Luke (Luke 13:7). Its proper meaning is "to make inoperative," "make of no effect," as above (Galatians 3:17). The phrase, καταργεῖσθαι ἀπό, etc., occurs Romans 7:2, "If the husband die (κατήργηται ἀπό), she is discharged from the law of the husband;" it ceases to have any effect upon her; so ibid., ver. 6, "Now we have been discharged from the Law (κατηργήθημεν ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμον);" it has ceased to have any operation towards us. The phrase combines the two ideas - separation suggested by the ἀπό (comp. Romans 9:3), and the cessation of a work (ἔργον) or an effect till then wrought by one upon the other of the two parties: the two parties have nothing more to do with each other
=============================
if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

 

[Neogaia777]

Re-posting...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Paraphrase from the words of Paul, and the key words here are: "You who are seeking to be "justified" by the law", or seeking to be justified by their keeping the law or by your keeping it...

Not all those who seek to obey or keep it, but only those who seek to be "justified" by doing it or by doing so, especially in their own selves or in their own strength and/or will and/or ability, etc, "justified" being the key word(s) here... For those who seek to obey it out of exceedingly great gratitude and great gratitude and love only, are the ones who are truly righteous...

Did any post show anyone seeking to do what is wrong ? i.e. to seek to be justified by the law, to be saved as if by keeping the TORAH ? ? ?

There have been a lot of apparently false claims that people do that, but so far no one has been able to show that in any post anyone did that ?