WMDs found!

[Oliver]

French Engineers have been in Iraq building bunkers and digging tunnels before the first gulf war and suspected after the first gulf war. How involved they were in digging tunnels around the country, there is no way of knowing for sure. All this going on as children starve?

I read your first link, and they speak about Yugoslav engineers, not French.

The second talks about a french engineer working on the building of a palace, and I saw nothing about him working on a bunker or tunnels underneath. (Yet working on a palace while the population is suffering is already disturbing to me).

 

[Lotar]

I'm not certian if they're right, but I know CNN and Fox both said Saddam hired a German firm to build the bunkers.

The French were building the Nuclear power plant that Israel blew up.

 

[Godzman]

The UN failed once, it doesn't work, no one wants a one world government, a New World Order

 

[tulc]

So really the only WMD found are bunkers? Which aren't so much WMD as well....anti-WMD?
tulc(who spends a lot of time being confused)

 

[Megachihuahua]

That some of you don't understand concerns me.

It is quite obvious what he did. When the U.N. inspectors (why U.N., and not someone who wasn't on an oil contract with Saddam?) came in, he destroyed the WMDs that were ready for deployment, but kept the bacteria strains and the production facilities, to the extent that he could rebuild his aresenal in 3-4 months. IMHO.
(If he can burry jetplanes, why not thousands of antrax canisters? How much desert can we dig up in three months? Just give us time, say, until just before the election {resultopularity spike}.)

 

[revolutio]

I am still looking for where it says the WMDs were found, apart from in your title that is.

 

[Edge]

Mega: No one has found production facilities. There aren't any. The only bacteria that has been found was botulism, which is completely unfit for biological warfare and appears fairly often in improperly canned food.

I'm sorry, but you need something other than baseless speculation.

 

[Godzman]

Mega: No one has found production facilities. There aren't any. The only bacteria that has been found was botulism, which is completely unfit for biological warfare and appears fairly often in improperly canned food.

I'm sorry, but you need something other than baseless speculation.

lies and more lies, Saddam did try to build WMDs to use against his enemies, it was plain as that

 

[revolutio]

lies and more lies, Saddam did try to build WMDs to use against his enemies, it was plain as that

Yes this is well known, no give me the dates please.

 

[kitten]

The UN failed once, it doesn't work, no one wants a one world government, a New World Order

How did the UN fail? by not finding any WMD?

Did you notice the irony that Rumsfeld has asked us to "give the weapons inspectors more time" when the Bush administration was unwilling to do that very thing?

As far as the UN not working, please provide concrete information to back up that assertion.

Further, "no one wants a one world government, a new world order" is a VERY generalized statement that does NOT reflect truth in the least...

You'll have to do better than inflammatory, unsupported generalizations.

 

[Edge]

Godz: Um, prove it. Last time I checked, it's been a over a decade since there's been any proof (or even real evidence) of WMD production facilities.

 

[MichaelFJF]

So Saddam lost his country and his sons over nothing? Even Blix said that Saddam was NOT cooperating. All he had to do to avoid war was cooperate - Why didn't he? M

 

[revolutio]

So Saddam lost his country and his sons over nothing? Even Blix said that Saddam was NOT cooperating. All he had to do to avoid war was cooperate - Why didn't he? M

Could you please specify how he wasn't cooperating? Really, I didn't keep up much with the prewar hype because it got really repetitive right up until the bombs started dropping.

 

[Edge]

Michael: Wrong. Blix said Iraq was cooperating. Read the report he made in February 2003.

In my 27 January update to the Council, I said that it seemed from our experience that Iraq had decided in principle to provide cooperation on process, most importantly prompt access to all sites and assistance to UNMOVIC in the establishment of the necessary infrastructure. This impression remains, and we note that access to sites has so far been without problems, including those that had never been declared or inspected, as well as to Presidential sites and private residences.

Why did you think the UN refused to authorize the war? Why do you think thinking people from across the political spectrum condemned Bush's invasion? Because Iraq was cooperating.

Guess what? We invaded anyway and made fools of ourselves, killed thousands of Iraqis, killed hundreds of our soldiers, destroyed a country and are refusing to fix it.

I don't know what you thought we were saying all this time, and really don't care. Get it now, if you haven't gotten it yet.

 

[datan]

I read your first link, and they speak about Yugoslav engineers, not French.

The second talks about a french engineer working on the building of a palace, and I saw nothing about him working on a bunker or tunnels underneath. (Yet working on a palace while the population is suffering is already disturbing to me).

At least 30 in U.S. are suspected of Selling Iraq Arms before War
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/16/i...2e18e820c0a5e7&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

American officials in Baghdad have identified at least 30 businesses and individuals in the United States that investigators said they suspect sold tens of millions of dollars in military technology to Iraq before the war. Atop the list of suspects identified in the wide-ranging investigation is a father-and-son team from San Diego charged Wednesday with selling gunboats to Saddam Hussein's government. Officials said they believed that the two San Diego businessmen, both of Iraqi descent, delivered and helped to assemble three 85-foot-long patrol boats, armed with machine guns, as part of an $11 million contract with Mr. Hussein's military.

amazing what hypocrites people are, isn't it?

 

[Durelen]

I read your first link, and they speak about Yugoslav engineers, not French.

The second talks about a french engineer working on the building of a palace, and I saw nothing about him working on a bunker or tunnels underneath. (Yet working on a palace while the population is suffering is already disturbing to me).

In 1995 Mr Wael said that he, like other workers, moved between 15 palaces and was not permitted near tunneling areas. The Wisdom in the West then was that Saddam was building air raid bunkers. But the tunnels, according to other reports were only made available in early 1997, where used to hide the vital material and information, especially computer disks and research equipment used in the biological weapons program and also to move them quickly to other sites after they have been inspected.

Notice he points out the construction of tunnels at 15 palaces.

The most impressive presidential residence, according to Mr Wael, is Qasr-Shatt al-Arab, a complex of buildings and four artificial lakes built along the waterway, which separates Iraq and Iran. "One of the French engineers working there told us it was bigger than the palace at Versailles," he said confirming the involvement of French experts in constructing Saddam’s palaces.

Notice he points out French experts at the construction of palaces.

Tying this up you have French experts (engineers) overseeing the construction of tunnels and bunkers in Iraq during the UN inspections.

How can I reach that conclusion? You can’t have engineers work on an above ground structure with no regard to what is going on below ground. Above floor and sub floor is all in one project design.

As for the first link, it seems that the French engineer reference was not in the article but contained in the video if I'm not mistaken. My search bot pulled up the reference. It's far easier to find references to the French helping Iraq develop its nuclear program and delivery systems than finding pre-war engineering projects concerning tunnels and bunkers.

I’m not trying to insult the French, I'm French-American and my family has been here since before the war of independence. It does sadden me to see the country of France adopt such a backwards philosophy concerning international diplomacy as has been done. French were the great diplomats by reputation but times change I suppose. Maybe this is due to the utter post Christian state France is in now. Luke 11:23 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

 

[Durelen]

At least 30 in U.S. are suspected of Selling Iraq Arms before War
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/16/international/middleeast/16ARMS.html?ex=1066881600&en=9e2e18e820c0a5e7&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE


amazing what hypocrites people are, isn't it?

We are not talking about cap guns and rubber duckies, buddy. This is about WMD’s and the concealment of them.

 

[yen]

Well in that case, look back to the 1980's when the US gave Iraq plenty of technology to fight Iran, including a variety of biological weapons technology.

Plenty of sources can be found in google for it.

 

[Oliver]

Notice he points out the construction of tunnels at 15 palaces.

Notice he points out French experts at the construction of palaces.

Tying this up you have French experts (engineers) overseeing the construction of tunnels and bunkers in Iraq during the UN inspections.

Wait wait wait.... you're saying that:
1) a French guy was involved in the building of one of SH's palaces (note that it was also said in your source that not everyone working on this palace had access to the tunnels, and nowhere did I see that this engineer had access to them)
2) SH also ordered tunnels and bunker to be built

And you conclude that therefore, "the French" were involved in the building of SH's bunkers and are therefore involved in SH's hidind his WMD (that were not found in these bunkers, btw)?

What kind of logic is that? You cannot deduce from your sources that any French engineer worked on SH's bunkers or tunnels: this is just a supposition you make here.

How can I reach that conclusion? You can’t have engineers work on an above ground structure with no regard to what is going on below ground. Above floor and sub floor is all in one project design.

Your own source says exactly the contrary, Durelen:
"In 1995 Mr Wael said that he, like other workers, moved between 15 palaces and was not permitted near tunnelling areas."

I’m not trying to insult the French, I'm French-American and my family has been here since before the war of independence. It does sadden me to see the country of France adopt such a backwards philosophy concerning international diplomacy as has been done. French were the great diplomats by reputation but times change I suppose.

I was saddened by what happened too, and I didn't agree with everything the French government did (the veto, or rather the announcement that they would veto the US led proposal, since the veto was not actually used, is an example of this). But when I see the criticism raised at France, I see much more baseless criticism than well-founded objections (this goes both ways, btw).

You know, I would really hope for my government to change their attitude on a few points: but as long as people will keep thowing mud at each other, well-founded criticism will be less likely heard.

 

[datan]

I was saddened by what happened too, and I didn't agree with everything the French government did (the veto, or rather the announcement that they would veto the US led proposal, since the veto was not actually used, is an example of this).

why don't you agree with this? What if the Security Council had voted to go to war on false evidence, and six months later no WMD is found. Would the Security Council ever have credibility again? I think the Security Council worked exactly as it was set up: to prevent one country from pushing through its own agenda, 9 votes are required and no dissent from the permanemt members. The US couldn't get either.